To ask how you would have dealt with this tantrum?

[JoyfulAndTriumphant]

Feel like we are failing miserably

DD has just turned two. She's generally fab, but is going through a very wilful phase right now. Fighting for independence, doesn't like us doing anything for her, tantrums when she doesn't get her way, and some general mischief like chucking her toys around (and laughing when told not to). We are trying to be firm with her but to be honest, she gives zero fucks.

This morning she would not let us get her dressed. We lay her down to put on her socks and she was kicking and screaming, rolling and crawling away. Absolutely refused to co operate. We tried to just continually lie her back down and put her clothes on, but she was having none of it. Kicking, screaming, crying, going rigid on DH's knee. She was getting herself into a state. I told DH, who was trying to be firm with her, to just stop (he thinks I'm far too soft and that I'm doing her no favours by pandering to her).

Eventually she got so worked up that we just let her run around in her nappy for another ten mins, and tried again when she was calmer. She still made it difficult but we managed. This was fine as we weren't in a hurry today, but generally we don't have a spare half hour just to put on her clothes in the morning. We're in charge and she needs to know that but she doesn't care. Aside from physically pinning her down and forcing her legs into her trousers etc, what were we meant to do??

I'm just not sure what we should have done. I have no idea, in fact. Can you tell me how you'd have dealt with it?

My son was similar at that age and it was a very frustrating phase (take heart...it is a phase...might last a couple of months...but it is a phase!)

My approaches with him:

• where possible/practical just left it until he was calmer
• clearly talking through what I was doing, what would happen next and what was can do after
• tried to include him in the process - e.g. Letting him choose his clothes (gruffalo top or train one? Red socks or blue?) having him help with changing stuff (Can you get a wipe from the pack?)
• distraction! Toys, book, TV. The most effective thing was a program on iPlayer on my phone - an episode of Sarah&Duck was about the right length to get him all sorted!

Good luck and I hope it passes soon.

Even if it's not your style, can I recommend reading the newbies guide to positive parenting (it's available on amazon as a paperback or kindle). It was recommended to me recently as I was struggling with my (slightly older) wilful dd1. It's changed my mindset and given me new techniques whereas previously I would have just got cross or frustrated.
Re the person who asked about time out - the research suggests that this is harmful for young children - some of the techniques in the book are alternatives. I haven't read it but there's a book called playful parenting that is also recommended

Definitely involve her in the process - but I was assuming op had tried that. I always spoke to my kids w respect, and got it back in spades (@ least till a certain person turned 13).

I disagree about consequences. The vast majority of toddlers do not get cause & effect, they are not developmentally capable. It's not a hard & fast point @ which they do grasp. Keep your eyes open, but I'd certainly expect most to start grasping it by 3.5.

Don't worry too much about how things will work with baby no2. They really do just fit into your current routine. I found ds2 was pretty much left to sleep in a bouncy chair/cot or on the playmat until about 5mo when he started to interact.
2yo all go through this phase.
Have a look at 'gentle parenting' techniques and try and implement them before you are sleep deprived with a new baby.
With nappy changes I offered ds a toy to hold or for about a month bribed him with raisins. When he refused I would sit next to the changing mat and ignore him until he came over (mumsnet). Sometimes I would have to wrestle him though and speak firmly.

Distraction - leaving her for a bit is fine too as she'll forget about it and get dressed in a while - 2 year olds are hard work!!!!

How is she with clothes generally...are there things she doesn't like to wear?

I would say that having two parents cajoling a child into anything immediately raises the drama and battle. If at all possible, I would keep it to one adult and the child, and take it on turns if you need a backup of energy and/or ideas. I've watched friends as a couple try and get their child to bed together and I can't see any benefit in it.

then I put her down and walk away from her but she doesn't care

Who knows if deep down a 2 year old cares.

We judge them on adult behavior.

And when they are naughty is it naughtiness, is it just a child's behavior because they don't have the speech to explain or they are frustrated as they can't do something they see others doing.

Be strict by all means but don't punish imv.

I just bought 123 magic in the hope it will help us.
My DS actually snapped my glasses when I tried to remove him from soft play last week and he's much to strong to force him into anything he's put his mind against.

Every 2 year old I have met understands time outside the room to calm down.

I think a key thing is that the middle of a full-on emotional tantrum is no time to teach expected behaviour - you need to focus on helping them calm down, and then use other tactics when they are more receptive to learning.

When my 2.5 year old is really overwrought it helps to name the emotion ("oh you're really upset right now") and take a few minutes to give him a hug (if he'll let me) or just speak calmly and it seems to help him release the all the emotion (yeah that sounds hippyish I know, but it really does).

A lot of the other techniques mentioned here really help when he's calm:

-explaining now/next
-giving choices
-making things into games
-lots of praise
-using positive words rather than negative.

I generally work on developing my son's empathy when we are at odds like that. I let him know that how he is acting is making me feel sad/frustrated/helpless by over acting my feelings in a safe was, ie, I'll over act sadness but completely tamp down any anger. When he sees that I'm not being forceful but that he is having a negative effect on me he will usually come and see what's wrong with me. I explain why I want to do what I want to do, dress him because it's cold, and how hard it is when he doesn't cooperate. Then he will either decide to do what I wanted if he was just objecting for the sake of objecting or tell me why he has a problem with it and we come up with a solution together. It lets him see that his actions have an effect on me and lets him make the decision about how to proceed, giving him back the sense of power that me blithely starting to dress him may have taken away from him.

I don't think unrelated punishments will help but if you are allowing her to play with the toys and basically offering her the choice between playing with the toys and getting dressed then it's hardly surprising that a 2 yr old chooses the more fun option. It would be more surprising if they actually chose to get dressed imo.

I'll over act sadness but completely tamp down any anger.

But anger is as valid an emotion as sadness. By not treating it as such you're not teaching any coping mechanisms.

I actually think this thread represents why a lot of kids have trouble with emotional regulation these days. Parents are so keen to avoid their kids even feeling the slightest bit of disappointment that they would rather let them have complete control than set any boundaries which is actually completely overwhelming for a 2 yr old to have so much control.
It isn't the end of the world if a child has to get dressed before playing. They will feel disappointed and that's ok. At times we all feel disappointed and it's part of life. Kids who are constantly shielded from it don't learn to deal with it imo.

bumsex love typing that name out

You are spot on! No idea why these days its frowned upon for children to be upset, or made to do anything they don't want to. They are hardly going to be traumatised for life because they had to get dressed to go out! There is a tendency these days to vastly over complicate the relatively straightforward parts of parenting.

Glad it's not just me! When kids get to school and actually have to follow instructions when asked and not when they feel like it it's obviously a shock to the system and they tantrum and disrupt. Dancing around your kids and letting them do what they like or tricking them into thinking they want to do stuff does them no favours. No-one gets everything they want all the time - why pretend that they do? I get shielding your kids from major distress but the trauma of having to get dressed?????

It isn't the end of the world if a child has to get dressed before playing. They will feel disappointed and that's ok.

Actually I think something which hasn't been mentioned that much is consistency - if you always have to get dressed first thing before playing then it is just the way it is and not disappointing.

I tend to find that nursery days where we have to be up and out of the house quickly and follow a consistent routine tend to run pretty smoothly. It's often supposedly 'relaxed' days which are actually the cause of most tears and tantrums because the normal routine goes out the window.

Well yes they will be disappointed at first but they will learn to console themselves with the knowledge that they get dressed quickly and can do other things - they learn to regulate their response. And routines/ knowing what comes next is reassuring. If they are distracted from their disappointment by family members running around yodelling with socks on their ears or just allowed to potter around in their nappy until they fancy some clothes on at lunchtime then they won't learn to regulate their response so easily.

And yes I'd stick to the dressing routine even on days when you don't have to be out early while they are young. You can be more flexible when they're older.

Yes I've always been a big fan of routine for babies but particularly for toddlers, even though that's considered old fashioned now. I think it helps a lot if they know what to expect and when to expect it.

I agree with bumsex

Have always wanted to write that and now I can 😂😂😂

Agree children need boundaries and to know no means no - do take a toy/peppa away if not behaving

Say xyz won't happen if you don't do abc etc

Agree that boundaries need setting - also the idea of not going out if the child is not keen enough to get dressed can only work if you have only one child (pretty hard on the others if you don't go as a punishment every time the 2 yo misbehaves!).
I've known DCs who never want to go out especially, so they may be happy to stay home, but if you had a plan for the day, unless its a massive treat for the DC in question, I don't think you should make going out the removable treat, and possibly cancel the plans because the child plays up. That could lead to a cycle of frustrating days stuck at home for everyone.