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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

More Christmas in-law dilemmas: violent nephew causes Christmas stress

109 replies

NewbyNew · 30/12/2016 11:27

Merry Christmas, Mumsnetters. I hope you can help me with this one.

My DH and I have no children, but we are very close to my two nieces, aged 9 and 11. For the last 5 years, we have held a pre-Christmas Day at our house for my parents, my brother and my two lovely nieces. We make turkey, open presents, and generally have a fun time. The following day, we spend with my in-laws. For many years, we used to visit my MIL and FIL on Christmas Day, but since being widowed, my MIL now goes to my BIL for the Christmas period. The problem is my 5 year old nephew. He is rude and violent. The last times we saw him, he kicked and hit our dog, so we no longer invite them to our house. He has been routinely excluded from nursery. My DH has a difficult relationship with his brother which, he says, he is only maintaining for the sake of his widowed mother.

On Christmas Day, we drive 3 hours to my BIL, spend 3 hours with my BIL SIL, nephew and MIL, and then drive 3 hours home. Their house is too small for us to stay over. My SIL is lovely and spends hours cooking a Christmas lunch for everyone. Over the last two Christmases, my nephew's behaviour has got worse. This Christmas, he threw a book at me and kicked me - that hurt! He also likes shouting at me and sticking his tongue out at me. His parents say "Oh don't do that again", which he ignores. He routinely thumps his mother and pulls her hair. My BIL will not admit there is anything wrong with his behaviour.

My dilemma is this - should I continue making the three hour trek with DH? I expect him to cater for my family at Christmas and we generally see much more of my family, as they live locally. Or should we both apologise and say that the 6 hour round trip on Christmas Day is too long, and that we will do it every other year from now on? Would my MIL get upset?

Your suggestions are very, very welcome. I'm very aware that, not having children ourselves, we may be having unreasonable expectations.

OP posts:

Planetarymagic1 · 30/12/2016 12:34

Blackbird82, Christmas is a living nightmare for many kids, all routine goes out of the window, rich food, stimulation 24/7, it is a nightmare.
When you say they do nothing, what would you like to see? And for whose benefit would that be?

Oddbins · 30/12/2016 12:36

it can be very difficult to come to terms with the fact that your child is different for any reason. He has been excluded presumably that means behavior support, Ed psychs and other agencies are involved.

You NBU not to want to go but please remember that the family may even struggling and ostracising them will hurt them.

Bear in mind that you are seeing the child when his routine is disturbed and he may be anxious. Tactical ignoring of low level negative behaviors is a recognised technique to prevent escalation as confrontation often makes things worse.

PurpleMinionMummy · 30/12/2016 12:36

Saoirse has a good point, he may find it very hard to have other people in his home if he has additional needs and this may make his behaviour worse. But even with AN, it's not acceptable for a child to be kicking guests and throwing things at them whilst the parents do nothing about it.

Planetarymagic1 · 30/12/2016 12:36

FrancisCrawford im repeating myself but if this child has limited self regulation then they would be apologising for something they cant control.

LagunaBubbles · 30/12/2016 12:36

Reasons or not things look unlikely to change soon, I wouldnt want to spend Christmas Day like this.

Blackbird82 · 30/12/2016 12:37

It's not just Christmas. It's any occasion.

Planetarymagic1 · 30/12/2016 12:38

Well there are essentially two choices:

accept this little boy, and make the best of it, he is family.
decide it all really is unacceptable, and avoid him until his parents can make him less disabled.

Original poster

NewbyNew · 30/12/2016 12:39

Namechange2 - thanks for the advice. Yes, we could visit more often and I do feel guilty that we spend so much time abroad with my extended family. Much more than with my BIL and SIL. This is partly because my BIL and DH have long had a difficult relationship: my DH has never wanted to see my BIL for longer than a couple of hours, and only maintains the relationship with his brother for the sake of their elderly mother. This also explains why our rare interactions are so fraught! My BIL does not accept that his son's behaviour is problematic. I spoke to him about the dog-kicking incident and he laughed it off, saying that my nephew does the same thing to their dog as well. On other occasions, he will roll his eyes at his son and leave the room. My DH and I set boundaries when we are with my nephew, such as not giving him a toy if he has been kicking people in order to get it, but I suspect that is why we are not very popular with my nephew. He tends to kick women (me, his mother, his MIL) rather than men (his father, my DH).

We feel very guilty that we don't want to spend time with him because of his behaviour. If we withdraw now, I suspect we will have little to no relationship with him as he grows up. As the OP have said, he is family and we should support him the best way that we can. He is also so little - just 5 years old. It's just that I don't know how best to intervene. His father would hit the roof if I mentioned ADHD/autism/SEN.

OP posts:

Planetarymagic1 · 30/12/2016 12:39

Ok occassion then, Blackbird. Some children cant cope with change. It doesnt make them bad.

LagunaBubbles · 30/12/2016 12:40

decide it all really is unacceptable, and avoid him until his parents can make him less disabled

Its not even been established if this boy has any SN yet - thats not a helpful reply.

Blackbird82 · 30/12/2016 12:41

Also when you ask what would I like to see the parents do? I would like to see them acknowledge when he is downright rude to somebody and explain that it's not acceptable and for there to be some kind of consequence for his behaviour.

He needs to be monitored closely and not allowed to do/say whatever he pleases whilst his parents sit back and allow it to happen!

LagunaBubbles · 30/12/2016 12:42

My BIL does not accept that his son's behaviour is problematic. I spoke to him about the dog-kicking incident and he laughed it off, saying that my nephew does the same thing to their dog as well

And this is the main problem.

Planetarymagic1 · 30/12/2016 12:42

It IS NOT YOUR PLACE to set boundaries like that. Keeping yourself and the dog safe is one thing, but attempting to set up a stimulus-response learning experience is massively overstepping.

I will guarantee you his parents know deep down there is something going on. Being able to publicly talk about it and address it is quite another, especially with family with whom relations are already strained.

Blackbird82 · 30/12/2016 12:44

Also fine, I accept that some children get overwhelmed with 'change' but don't expect other family members to just tow the line and put up with it at the expense of having a shit time - every time.

Children with SN I understand this is different. But our nephew is not!

liletsthepink · 30/12/2016 12:44

I wouldn't want to travel for 6 hours to endure that family atmosphere at Christmas! Even if there are SEN involved with your nephew it still doesn't excuse the violence towards you. Nobody should expect to return home from a Christmas family visit with bruises.

Do you see your MIL at other times? If so, I would make the effort to keep in regular contact with your nice SIL and see your MIL at other times (without BIL and nephew) and say that the Christmas travelling is too much for you both.

Planetarymagic1 · 30/12/2016 12:46

lagunabubbles "Its not even been established if this boy has any SN yet - thats not a helpful reply."

A child of 5, regularly excluded from nursery, and swim class, has something going on. If it was poor parenting, the child would be able to conform away from the parents. The clue here is that his behaviour is consistent regardless of situation.

Demonising the child is a lot less helpful than interpreting what the OP has reported.

Original poster

NewbyNew · 30/12/2016 12:47

Thanks for all your advice, suggestions, and comments. You've rightly identified the hard choices we have to make: leave our only nephew to grow up without us, which is the least stressful option for us. Or accept him the way that he is, in order to have him, and his parents, in our lives.

You've also identified that spending a few hours with the family on the most stressful day of the year is probably not the best way to go! I'm still not sure that he has SEN/autism/ADHD. Even if he had a diagnosis, his parents may choose not to tell us about it. This is where we shouldn't be judging him for his behaviour, but just deciding whether, or how, to engage with him.

Lots to think about. Thanks again for taking the time to share your advice.
Happy Christmas everyone!

OP posts:

PotteringAlong · 30/12/2016 12:47

I would also add that my DH and I are both teachers and I have no idea what my DS does in reception - I ask him every day, he tells me he can't remember and then tells me in minute detail what he had for his lunch

I'm not saying there aren't issues, but don't read problems in things that don't exist.

LagunaBubbles · 30/12/2016 12:48

And I repeat - he hasnt been diagnosed with anything, your avoid him until his parents can make him less disabled isnt helpful.

LagunaBubbles · 30/12/2016 12:49

In fact its quite a nasty dig at the OP who has been nothing but reasoanble in her posts so far.

Planetarymagic1 · 30/12/2016 12:51

LAgunabubbles you dont know if he has been diagnosed or not, his parents are not obliged to share that. Secondly, a diagnosis can take YEARS. It is fairly rare for chikdren this young to have a diagnosis. Thirdly, if he DID have a diagnosis, so what? That wouldnt make a difference to his behaviour, would it? He would still be the same kid! The only thing that might change is YOUR attitude.

Christmassnake · 30/12/2016 12:53

Are you mad? 6 hours in a car on Xmas day.....do like punishing yourselves or enjoy being martors,never mind the child from hell,the drive itself would of been enough for me to say no.

FrancisCrawford · 30/12/2016 12:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

NewbyNew · 30/12/2016 12:55

PotteringAlong - thank you for your message about Reception. This is where Mumsnet is so helpful! We don't have children ourselves, so it is hard to know what is/is not normal at school. Because we are not aware of what is really going on with our nephew, and because we are worried about him, we are starting to misinterpret things. Good reminder to draw a deep breath, and think about a different approach :-)

OP posts:

Original poster

NewbyNew · 30/12/2016 12:59

Christmassnake - the problem is that we selfishly avoid my BIL's family the rest of the year. So we do the mad 6 hour drive in order to assuage our guilt and to make my MIL happy that her two sons are together on Christmas Day. Which is self-defeating as everyone ends up having a rubbish time on Christmas Day! Yes, we definitely need to do something about this martyr complex ;-)

OP posts:

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