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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Breaking : possible terror attack in Berlin

774 replies

MagicMary1 · 19/12/2016 19:41

twitter.com/ap/status/810931083944534016

This is so sad.

OP posts:
sportinguista · 20/12/2016 16:57

Yes, you have a serious crush on him Southall!

But he is rather intriguing...

1horatio · 20/12/2016 17:00

He's a bit unattractive imo.

But I like him when he opens his mouth ;)

Werkzallhourz · 20/12/2016 17:12

They condone those same behaviours in their own culture but allow it in others.

I think it is a form of Orientalism, to be honest, and I have felt that for a long time. To me, there seems to be a really Victorian colonialist strain that runs under a lot of these people's attitudes: the notion that you cannot expect "such people" to be "civilised" because they are somehow "less than".

In fact the entire way Britain approaches multiculturalism within the borders of Britain itself is remarkably similar to the British colonial approach to non-white communities in countries within the Empire. There's also a fairly suspicious odour of "white man's burden" behind a lot of the attitudes, and it really puts my back up.

The worst place you find this sort of thing is in The Guardian. There's very little comprehension of self-determination, agency or valid social and political reasons behind situations in non-Western countries in that newspaper. There's constantly this narrative of needing to "save" people in non-western countries, sometimes even from themselves, a narrative that now often also extends to white "other" communities in Britain itself (such as the "working class").

It's all really rather offensive, but very few people seem to notice it. Syria is a perfect example of it all writ large.

I'd also argue the BBC reinforces a lot of this narrative through the way it represents minority communities in Britain and societies in non-Western countries. I known a Lebanese minister complained about the BBC's representation of Lebanon a few years ago.

Wookiecookies · 20/12/2016 17:21

Well put werkz, some very considered and interesting points.

SouthallGirl · 20/12/2016 17:37

After Cologne I posted a meme of Merkel with the caption 'that look that says you've ruined an entire continent', it was deleted and I was banned

I absolutely remember that. Nothing racist about it.

Wookiecookies · 20/12/2016 17:46

Oh, ok ELF think I see where you are coming from now. Smile

SouthallGirl · 20/12/2016 17:51

Regressive left is, to my mind, New Labour with knobs on. It is essentially totalitarianism - if you hold another opinion then we don't want to know you, go away.

Nevertheless PC predates 1997 when Blair got in, because I remember remarking to a friend of mine around 1990 how confusing I found it all.

KenAdams · 20/12/2016 18:15

He's been released

MsHooliesCardigan · 20/12/2016 18:16

Werkz Thanks for your very eloquent and well informed posts. I work in mental health in a very culturally and racially diverse area and I struggle a lot with tolerating cultures that are themselves very intolerant. I wince inwardly when I see a 4 year old girl in a hijab or a woman in full niquab with just a slit for her eyes shuffling along behind her husband who's wearing shorts and flip flops when it's 30 degrees.
It seems to be easier to draw a line when it comes to protecting children- there are a lot of families here who come from countries with very high rates of FGM and it is made crystal clear to parents that it is illegal here and they will be prosecuted.
Also, the LA's safeguarding policy specifically states that, while cultural differences will be respected, they will never be seen as justification for clear harm to a child.

NotJustAnotherUsername · 20/12/2016 18:35

Unfortunately FGM is alive and well in the UK. Thousands of reported cases and not a single prosecution. So whilst healthcare professionals are doing their bit, the justice system is not.

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/21/england-fgm-cases-recorded-2015-2016

ElfontheShelfIsWATCHINGYOUTOO · 20/12/2016 18:38

Also, the LA's safeguarding policy specifically states that, while cultural differences will be respected, they will never be seen as justification for clear harm to a child

^^ But often its community pressure that is more present than a local authority issuing edicts. If a girl is being married off - and does not have FGM, and she is being turned down because of this - because its ingrained in culture - pressure is being brought to bear on the family and the girl. < case happened recently, the mother didn't want to do it - but girl was being turned down.

ElfontheShelfIsWATCHINGYOUTOO · 20/12/2016 18:42

He has been released! Wow!

So highly likely perp is on the run - shocking.

kateandme · 20/12/2016 18:47

yes they are saying they got the wrong man. and hes on the wrong and have put everyone on high elert saying this will not end anywhere but badly.the man will now be agitated possibly high on what hes done or might have got away with,planning next part of his attacks and also now he knows there is people looking makes him more dangerous as hes nothing to lose. and he will want to go out in the biggest daming way possible now.

1horatio · 20/12/2016 19:03

True...

The guy in Zurich was apparently a mentally disturbed (really?!) Swiss citizen with a Ghana-ish (is that the word?) background. He has also killed an other person on Sunday...
he doesn't seem to have a connection to the mainly Somali mosque, is not Muslim or a right wing extremist (most likely), but he seemed to have had an interest in the occult.

All I know that it will most likely lead to more surveillance, open police presence etc... I hope they're doing it effectively and not just wasting money and will be able to protect people from unfortunately intelligent and cunning terrorists (and not just mentally disturbed people that apparently can't aim....)

SouthallGirl · 20/12/2016 19:22

Unfortunately FGM is alive and well in the UK. Thousands of reported cases and not a single prosecution.

Interesting this should come up now, because on another thread I was howled down by the regressive let about FGM continuing in UK. Prove it, link it, how do you know, you're lying, etc etc.

hackmum · 20/12/2016 19:23

SouthallGirl: "They condone those same behaviours in their own culture but allow it in others."

You mean condemn, not condone. (I say this to be helpful, not to snipe. I pretty much agree with you.)

I think Werkzallhourz makes some very good points too about the diaspora. In the 1980s, the left was quite dominant in local government, and there was very much a view that we should encourage multiculturalism rather than integration, and allow people to celebrate their own languages, traditions and so on. And that's fine up to a point, but only up to a point. You can't tolerate things like FGM or honour killings or forced marriages. I also worry about things like cousin marriages in some Pakistani communities in the north of England, where generations of in-breeding has led to congenital disorders at a much higher rate than the rest of the population.

At the same time I have absolutely no desire to place myself on the same side of the fence as groups like Britain First, who wage campaigns of hatred against these communities.

ElfontheShelfIsWATCHINGYOUTOO · 20/12/2016 19:25

Southall - its always in the news! This year over school hols they had people watching at the airport looking out for potential girls being taken to get it done abroad. Its always in the media.

Werz, love your posts, always excellent and from interesting angle and depth.

NotJustAnotherUsername · 20/12/2016 19:29

Interesting this should come up now, because on another thread I was howled down by the regressive let about FGM continuing in UK. Prove it, link it, how do you know, you're lying, etc etc.

Really? Even the guardian have reported on it (see above link). But then it doesn't suit their narrative does it? We cannot ever be accepting of such abhorrent practices, no not even in the name of tolerance.

Pluto30 · 20/12/2016 19:38

Why the fuck would they release him?

1horatio · 20/12/2016 19:40

he couldn't be placed in the car... forensics etc...

hotmail124 · 20/12/2016 20:40

Werkzallhourz
Fair enough criticism on the Guardian I am a reader but take your point.
Many years ago, a great Pakistani student at the school I worked at, won a debating competition. She was brilliant. Next day she came to school black and blue. Beaten by family for her success. Soon removed and married off. This girls grammar school did nothing. It's enabling, or worse. GBH is the same crime whoever is the perpetrator. And sucking up to patriarchal thuggery is one of many mis placed practices which has enabled FGM and all the rest. And I get your point about liberal hand wringing letting this go.
Unless gov have the integrity to enforce equal rights legislation for all women, this sort of malarkey has given green light to misogyny across the board: Philip Davies, and sexist crap that's come out of Farage too.
The irony is, many Islamic countries were relatively egalitarian until the last 20 years or so. ( when internet and all it brought became pervasive) Look at Iran and Egypt in the 1970s, Turkey in the 1920s-30s. Moslem friends at my school in the 70s wouldn't have dreamed of wearing head or body covering and neither would their mums. And calling out sectarian sexism doesn't make some one a racist.
Wonder if the war on terror, isn't really a war on infantile, sexually repressed thugs?

OhYouBadBadKitten · 20/12/2016 20:42

That's not really how it went on the thread where FGM was briefly spoken about. An accusation was made that liberals allow it to flourish. That was questioned.

Once again a thread like this is being hijacked for peoples particular political purposes. In the mean time there are families grieving.

SouthallGirl · 20/12/2016 20:49

I also worry about things like cousin marriages in some Pakistani communities in the north of England, where generations of in-breeding has led to congenital disorders at a much higher rate than the rest of the population

Yes, and I've seen the photographs too, but will not post on here.

SouthallGirl · 20/12/2016 20:51

This year over school hols they had people watching at the airport looking out for potential girls being taken to get it done abroad

And then what? They cannot force a girl to be intimately examined.

SouthallGirl · 20/12/2016 20:55

hotmail - I wonder if you ever saw those glorious photos of young women and men in Afghanistan about 40 yrs ago? Someone posted them on the last Cologne thread, I think, but they also appeared in the Daily Mail.

We saw happy stylish men & women, chatting with each other without chaperone, dressed in European clothes and doing a job of work. It's gone, that life is gone, replaced by the Taliban.