Breaking : possible terror attack in Berlin

[MagicMary1]

twitter.com/ap/status/810931083944534016

This is so sad.

Yes it might help a bit. Perhaps we could all do with a bit less of that.

A friend of mine who is rather senior in the army told me a few years ago that he thought Pakistan the most dangerous country on the planet, far more so than Iraq or Afghanistan or Syria. A combination of some very poor and rural areas, where people are religious because they have fuck-all else and life is cheap, and a tribal and patriarchal society.

I don't know much about it other than what I read in the paper, but it strikes me that most of those points now apply to so many people from so many different countries that it's terrifying. A combination of seeing unimaginable traumas and suffering losses; feeling like you have no future; and a "holy" book with bloodthirsty mandates is not a happy one.

I have no idea how the fuck this can ever be sorted out, but I think the generations to come might be even more problematic :(

A combination of some very poor and rural areas, where people are religious because they have fuck-all else and life is cheap, and a tribal and patriarchal society

That's exactly it. Add in a lack of education (due to aforementioned poor/rural upbringing) and a widespread fear/mistrust/hatred of Western cultures... how can you address that?

It doesn't seem to have many cheerful aspects to the religion? Lots of rules etc but not a great deal of hope and cheer.

We do have huge issues on our hands world over...

Plus subjugation of women and seeing them as possessions - doesn't enhance your chances of being a tolerant human being.

Every single individual affected by what is currently going on might need years of counselling - which they'll never get. It's heartbreaking. To think that others are cynically using that to go and destroy others is enraging!

While everyone is too afraid to speak their mind about false refugees and the dangers of dim for fear of being called racist or bigot it will not be stopped.

In a few months we will all be listening to another attack, and another after that. And another.

A colleague of my DH is British Pakistani. While visiting his family in Pakistan he came across an abandoned baby girl in the street. People were literally stepping over her ignoring her.

He took her to hospital and paid for her to have medical treatment there.

And there we have it again- bumbling about Pakistan before you get the facts.
The attacker might be a German right wing or a mad man- or anyone else for that matter- NOT Pakistani
Are you people for real!!!!

They're saying now the guy they have isn't the right one

^ but what do you do with those people who are already here? Especially the ones who've destroyed their documents so you can't be sure where they are from.

And the second generation problems - I've always thought integration is a far greater problem than immigration. Same sort of thing: the fear of being racist and our tolerance of other cultures in the west has allowed some very worrying groups and beliefs to thrive.

user1471439240 Tue 20-Dec-16 13:31:59

YY User. We are still too leaky but yes have a small advantage.

Bobkinyoyo that's heartbreaking but it does tie in with what I've heard from my neighbour (his family moved here just before he was born, but he goes back to visit though)

Yup Frantical. And in the meantime, let's all have a conversation about what a massive cow Katie Hopkins is.

HeyRoly I don't see how it can be stopped either. Maybe in a few generation's time we'll see that it's petered out. But for the immediate future, we'll see more and more of this, i'm convinced.

Erm, no, the post was about why terrorism finds fertile ground in parts of Pakistan and other countries with similar issues. But don't let that stop your frothing!!

So what exactly makes you sure the attacker is foreign.?

I will froth alright.You are all blinded by hatred for foreigners you can't even reason.
PS: I am a White British woman- in case you are wondering.

Reality, sadly. Why would a German Christian want to mow down a Christmas tree and people celebrating Christmas? Sure it's technically possible, but highly unlikely, sadly.

And if not first generation, second. Look at the background of the 07/07 bombers or jihadi john for an example:

news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/uk/05/london_blasts/investigation/html/bombers.stm

Which goes back to my earlier point about integration. Something is going horribly wrong when kids are moving here or being born here and still grow up hating westerners. Britain First and similar organisations, I'm looking at you here just as much as any radical preacher. Social isolation and lack of integration is a bad thing.

I grew up in east London alongside immigrant Asian communities (indian, Bengali and Pakistani). My best friend is British Indian.

There are horrendous attitudes and practices ongoing in these communities (my friend for e.g. at the age of 27 was slapped and kicked by her brother for going out with a man from a different religion and this is by no means unusual) but either you are super liberal and like to pretend it doesn't happen or you are a nutcase Britain first type. It's impossible to have a sensible conversation about integration. It's a huge problem. Much much bigger than immigration itself.

so so so much this

Believer

Calm yourself down and read the whole thread. It is a reasonable discussion and everyone has offered interesting points of view even if they differ from yours. Dont let rage and misunderstanding of intentions blind you to the concerns of real people. If you have useful responses and counterarguments to any of the points raised by posters here, why not add them?
This kind of excessive reactionary behaviour merely adds to the problem imho.

Bobkin this.

Yes, there has to be middle ground between Britain first (or Katie or Milo...) and being ultra liberal.

I mean, I myself am an expat. So, why would I want to be racist against foreigners? But appreciating that not all of us have the same values and that this may cause extreme problems should be possible!

I am growing very tired of people these days, using guilt inducing buzzwords to shut down a conversation, without adding anything remotely useful to the dialogue itself.

I mean I do consider myself liberal and when I say problems with integration I must point out I am not trying to be divisive.

But if integration were discussed more and attitudes within certain communities challenged we might not have so many home grown extremists.

But you see bob thats my point. Why should you have to point it out? It is a realistic reasonable conversation. Anyone who takes the time to carefully read responses and input can see that. There is no doubt that these issues are contentious, but that doesnt mean we should all be expected to just stick our fingers in our ears, sing lah de dah and hope it will all just stop.