Breaking : possible terror attack in Berlin

[MagicMary1]

twitter.com/ap/status/810931083944534016

This is so sad.

Agree with WantToRunAgain. What guns also do is remove the opportunity to take someone alive and question them to discover intelligence about their links and associates, thus preventing further attacks. The preference must always be to try to take down a terrorist alive. Police are already armed with Tasers, a less lethal option that leaves essential intelligence gathering options open.

Yup, and while you are trying to get in the range to taze the pig bastard, more people get shot, exploded, or you die. Have you ever seen the limited range of a tazer, or ar you talking out of your ass?
Also, when you have taken the terrorist alive, it will have the opportunity to shut his mouth, get expensive representation and string along the police, medias and associations for months and years...

Having worked in policing for 13 years I can assure you I am not talking out of my 'ass'. Are you Donald Trump in disguise OfaFrenchmind?

Where do you think the intelligence comes from to prevent the numerous attempts in the UK every year? Much of the best intelligence is from informants previously associated with terrorism and those who have returned from fighting in Syria. I suggest you need to remove your own head from your derriere.

Those up for mass migration with no checks should welcome them into their villages and towns

I live in London. I do

It's not as simple as merely stopping migration. Many (in fact most) terrorists on British soil have been born here.

Ofa, it's not a straight choice between tazing and shooting though is it? They can still be shot, but by a rapid response fire arms unit who are experts rather than just a workaday policeman who's not going to be so highly trained he can take them out without catching civilians or hostages in the crossfire.

Plus if all police are armed it's going to lead to more criminals arming themselves which means a greater proliferation of guns and therefore greater availability of guns to terrorists. One of the reasons a Bataclan style attack is unlikely here is because terrorists in this country are very unlikely to be able to access the sort of high powered guns necessary for these attacks. But if organised criminals start importing them as a response to police arming themselves in general that could change rapidly.

Merkel will dismiss the attack being anything to do with open borders and will claim lone wolf. Except there have now been several lone wolf attacks in germany in the space of a few months not to mention all the sexual assaults. Unfortunately the victims are seen as collateral damage to her and her ilk. The extremists are winning, people now avoiding activities they previously enjoyed, women being advised not to go out alone, exactly what they wanted.

username

Seeing as the attacker was a refugee Merkel may find herself in slightly hot water.

A refugee camp by Templehof airport has been raided this am. As there is an election coming up Merkel wants to be seen as tough at the moment so I imagine her response will reflect that. See recent faff she's made about banning the burka for example.

It's being reported he has only been in the country 23 months and already has a criminal record.

Yes a refugee from err Pakistan apparently. But you just know it will be well we can't stop helping people because of a few thousand bad apples

Apparently the refugee camp is the one where the suspect is believed to have been staying.

The truck appears to have been stolen from a construction base in Poland. There was also a passenger on board, who was already dead when discovered.

For for those seeking a well balanced article on refugees and terrorism This article looks at both sides of the discussion.

kitten

DH and DD are asleep.

Will totally read. Thanks

Hula, the truck is a Polish one but it is sounding as though it was stolen in Berlin, not Poland. The dead man in the cab is believed to be the Polish lorry driver who was making a drop in Berlin and was killed when the lorry was hijacked.

badkitten, apart from the fact that article is badly out of date in such a fast moving and changing environment, to describe it as being 'balanced' is laughable and several of it's conclusions have already been proven to be incorrect. Frankly it's absolutely worthless.

That article just affirms my beliefs that all these young men unable to cope with the liberal world would be better off seeking refuge in countries who hold similar values to theirselves. There has actually been quite a bit of research in this area and it's very common for people used to life in islamic countries developing depression and other mental health issues due to their incompatibility with the life in the west.

Nothing about this article is balanced

Nope. I personally wish honest discussions about how these primarily young, male Muslims can be expected to deal with liberal societies and what we can do to make sure they do deal, or what a failure of this would mean for terrorism but also for women, children, homosexuals...

My city had this attack 5 month ago. Normal armed policemen stopped him before he could go further to slaughter more innocents. By shooting him, because they were there. No question about tasing.
We are so flooded by report of shooting from the USA that we ignore the fact that plenty of countries have armed police that do their job very well, and do not shoot civilians nilly willy.

A very sad day indeed, my sympathies with the victims including the poor Polish lorry driver who seems to have been murdered as part of this.

However much we would like to ascribe the same values to others in the rest of the world we must by now be aware that is just not the case. We do not all share exactly the same values and to think that is the case is putting your head firmly in the sand.

Bill you are right apparently the truck had gone to Italy to pick up it's load of steel which it was taking to drop in Berlin, the driver had arrived early and was waiting to do that. It was apparently fully laden which made it heavier.

It's being reported he has only been in the country 23 months and already has a criminal record

That's commonplace. The law of the land counts for nothing, because it is manmade law by the kuffar.

There has actually been quite a bit of research in this area and it's very common for people used to life in islamic countries developing depression and other mental health issues due to their incompatibility with the life in the west.

Yes, that is so. Many men from MENA find it very irritating indeed to see western women walking freely about town, in the evenings, chatting and laughing. That irritation soon turns to fearsome anger. It is an incompatability for them.

They may also have been criminal in their own country of birth. The problem issue if they change their name etc as this one seems to have done we have no way of tracking that, even with the police in that country, or it will take many months to do so. The criminal may then of course move on, change names again and so you go, round and round.

Shoot em all and let god sort them out.

how these primarily young, male Muslims can be expected to deal with liberal societies and what we can do to make sure they do deal

1horatio It is virtually impossible to reverse the inculcation. Maybe if it were possible to have one-to-one counselling but that is not practicable. The faith trumps everything absolutely. I worked for an ME businessman in London who had arrived into the UK aged 20, he is now 46. He had learned to conduct himself as a Westerner, mimicked some of the behaviours but essentially his attitudes and beliefs remained incompatible with western values.

Not all values or societies are equal, however much we want to think they are.

The use of fire arms is to shoot to kill. That is the training. Their sole use is to protect human life by eliminating the treat. When/if other methods are used (such as taser) it as the situation dictates possible and safe. Although the police do not want to kill anyone the preservation of like is key.

I don't think to arm all the police with guns is the answer. A side arms are very inaccurate at anything more than the shortest of distances as with any other short barrelled weapon system (dispite what Hollywood says). Lots of hours training would be needed to get officers any good with a pistol. A long barrelled rifle is a lot easier but I think we all agree every officer carrying a huge rife would not be the way forward. Then there is all the judgement and rules of engagement training every officer would need to ensure they had the tools to make accurate decisions and judgments on the spot and stay within the confines of the law. I think it is far better to make sure we have suitable coverage nation wide of specialist armed response units. Officers who are specially trained and good at making the correct decisions and very good at accurately using their military grade weapons systems. Remember an officer who is just a mediocre shot is as much a hazard to the public than they are a terrorist.

And also remember the biggest weapon against terrorism is intelligence (something we are very good at in this country). That where to bulk of our resources should be.