...to feel depressed that only 7% of UK identify as Feminist?

[DioneTheDiabolist]

www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/2016/01/we-are-a-nation-of-hidden-feminists/

7% of the population and just 9% of women in this country identify as feminist. I'm not saying that everyone should call themselves feminist, I care more about what people do, rather than the label they assign themselves. But I am that the number is so low.

Given that most people believe in sexual equality, why do so many people not feel comfortable to call themselves feminist? And what (if anything) can we do about it?

There's nothing stopping either se x pursuing a career in any field though. We're back to equality of opportunity vs equality of outcome

I am stunned to hear you say that. I really am. It's like you've never heard of barriers in work - especially in STEM.

Those barriers have been discussed on here and are freely available if you research,

As a headteacher, you should really be aware of barriers to learning and barriers groups face in work.

As a headteacher, how do you tackle those feelings and what do you say to pupils who have these concerns?

Who is it that has these concerns ? You are effectively saying that educational attainment and the recent gap doesn't matter. it doesn't matter because the only subjects that really count are STEM and men dominate these.

girl

Can YOU answer the question about why you think white, working class boys are the group least likely to achieve 5 good GCSEs?

I don't think I've seen you answer that.

Sorry - i thought I already did. The education system doesn't care about boys in general, there are lots of groups and efforts to help and promote women and girls as they are perceived as needing it.

Will you answer why it is you think that the courses women do are crap and they should get off them and onto the subjects men seem to prefer ?

The education system doesn't care about boys in general

Can you explain that further? In what way do you think they don't care?

Can you name me any initiative aimed at boys only to encourage educational attainment ? There are hardly any male teachers, the educational establishment has little relevance to working class kids full of liberal female teachers who look down their nose at their white van man red top reading dads and uncles.

Can you say why it is you value STEM so such more than the subjects girls actually seem to want to do ? And whether you want to see initiatives to get equal numbers of men on those courses dominated by girls, or whether that is not important ?

You do realise that schools and individual teachers are judged on how well their pupils do?

That OFSTED, SMT etc look at the data, identify underperforming groups and ask the teacher and the school how they can improve the performance of those groups?

Yes, even those liberal female teachers do care about how well ALL their pupils do. Not just because their performance and pay depends on it but because they care about all their pupils.

Plenty of teachers ask themselves how they can engage their pupils and get the best out of them.

Mistoffeleze
There's no such thing as the pay gap. Women absolutely don't have fewer workers rights in the UK.
"The Office for National Statistics (ONS) collects data on earnings in the UK which it uses to calculate gender pay differences. In 2016, the average pay of women working full-time was only 90.6% of men’s pay. This means that compared to men, women stopped earning on the 10th November 2016 – they were effectively working for no money after this date, which is referred to as Equal Pay Day. On average, a woman working full-time in 2016 earned £5,732 less a year than a man (Allen, 2016, Fawcett Society, 2016). "
www.striking-women.org/module/workplace-issues-past-and-present/gender-pay-gap-and-struggle-equal-pay
'And like that, pooof, the credibility of everything you say is gone!'

As a headteacher, do you think girls are more likely to apply for places that will accept them?

Yes. Boys too. By the time you're applying for Uni, you need to have realistic expectations. We don't encourage someone without a flair for a subject to apply to study it in a Russel Group Uni.

As a headteacher, why do you think boys are more likely to apply for computer sciences and girls are more likely to apply for English?

Because they tend to be better at them. It suits their style of learning, or retaining and using information and then turning that education into a job which allows them to be successful members of society.

Do you, as a headteacher, think this is a problem? Do you, as a headteacher, encourage your pupils to do subjects that are normally seen as male / female?

If they're good at them then yes. If they aren't that good at them but enjoy it then in lower secondary I'd encourage them to work hard, join clubs, ask for extra help etc. I don't base expectations regarding a student's sex on any of their choices. I would encourage any student equally, if they have the aptitude, interest, enjoyment or whatever else is necessary.

As a headteacher, how do you tackle those feelings and what do you say to pupils who have these concerns?

At my school, IT is a compulsory / additional GCSE which 99% of students take. Science(s) is of course compulsory, as is a modern language, Eng lang and lit. We don't offer Food Technology and DT / Graphics/Art/Drama are fairly evenly split.

Therefore, this would only come up for a child moving on to A Levels. By that age (assuming this isn't an actual concern) I'd tell them to grow the fuck up or words to that effect. If they have a chip on their shoulder about the opposite sex and they're being treated equally by their peers, I'd give them short shrift. I'd want them to explain how their ideas were anything other than bigotry toward the other sex.

Happily, I've never been in this situation. By encouraging an atmosphere where everyone is judged on their merits and not their vagina / willy, no student has ever wanted to avoid a particular subject because of too many of the opposite sex. I've had a case recently where a student was asked by his teacher why he wanted to take Mandarin (he's not a good Mandarinist). He's response was a list of pretty girls who were taking the class. He would have been one of two boys.

I am stunned to hear you say that. I really am. It's like you've never heard of barriers in work - especially in STEM. Those barriers have been discussed on here and are freely available if you research, As a headteacher, you should really be aware of barriers to learning and barriers groups face in work.

I'm quite aware of claims thanks. I worked in STEM. Before changing careers I was a coding geek.

As I've said and keep saying, I firmly believe that we have equality of opportunity ie. the barriers no longer exist.

The reason men are in the majority of STEM jobs is for factors such as male / female brains as opposed to the nasty patriarchy.

You didn't answer my question.

Your conclusion is that the system is just dandy, except for the bit that apparently discourages girls from doing the important stuff (STEM). And if there is any fault around the underachievement of boys, particularly working class ones, it's their own sexist attitudes and those of their feckless fathers and uncles to blame.

hotmail124

The pay gap stats would (for me) have more credibility if it showed like for like against hours worked.

As I've said and keep saying, I firmly believe that we have equality of opportunity ie. the barriers no longer exist

And plenty of people on here - as well as evidence would say otherwise.

The reason men are in the majority of STEM jobs is for factors such as male / female brains as opposed to the nasty patriarchy

I am surprised to hear a headteacher say that.

ami

I did answer your question, would you at least answer mine ?

The reason men are in the majority of STEM jobs is for factors such as male / female brains as opposed to the nasty patriarchy
'Male/female brains?' What does this mean?

And plenty of people on here - as well as evidence would say otherwise.

Who faces the biggest barriers to educational attainment ? Why do some matter more than others ?

BoneyBackJefferson
'The pay gap stats would (for me) have more credibility if it showed like for like against hours worked.'
www.equalpayportal.co.uk/statistics/

There are many reasons why pupils chose the subjects that they do, ranging from peer pressure, to parental control of their children, to society etc.

And plenty of people on here - as well as evidence would say otherwise.

MN is notoriously mental. Absolutely not a reflection of real life. Amusingly, in a meeting last week, a Faculty Leader was talking about a difficult parent and she finished her little rant with "bet she's on fucking MumsNet!"

The evidence s by no means conclusive.

I am surprised to hear a headteacher say that.

Do you believe men and women or boys and girls are the same at birth and everything beyond that is from social conditioning? There are no innate abilities more likely to be present in one sex than another?

Of the many heads I know (and I'm a headmistress not a headteacher, for what it's worth), my ideas are the more prevalent. This isn't a demonstration of massive failing in our schools but perhaps suggests that those with most experience have seen things keyboard warriors and idealists haven't.

The pay gap stats would (for me) have more credibility if it showed like for like against hours worked.
Do you mean including overtime? I'mean not sure of the implications there. If it's paid overtime you may have a point. For salaried employees I'd argue that men working long unpaid overtime props up the system that primarily disadvantages women but actually impacts anyone with caring responsibilities.

This isn't a demonstration of massive failing in our schools but perhaps suggests that those with most experience have seen things keyboard warriors and idealists haven't

Keyboard warriors?

I've worked in education for 20 years. HTH

MN is notoriously mental

There is also a lot of research done about barriers women face in STEM subjects. I believe some of those people aren't on MN. Some might be on NetMums

So you're an idealist then?

What role? Primary or secondary?

You didn't answer my question.

Do you believe men and women or boys and girls are the same at birth and everything beyond that is from social conditioning? There are no innate abilities more likely to be present in one sex than another?

There is also a lot of research done about barriers women face in STEM subjects. I believe some of those people aren't on MN. Some might be on NetMums

"MN is notoriously mental. Absolutely not a reflection of real life. Amusingly, in a meeting last week, a Faculty Leader was talking about a difficult parent and she finished her little rant with "bet she's on fucking MumsNet!"

"I'm a headmistress not a headteacher, for what it's worth, my ideas are the more prevalent. This isn't a demonstration of massive failing in our schools but perhaps suggests that those with most experience have seen things keyboard warriors and idealists haven't."

Are you a comic? Mistoffeleze This is good comedy writing.

DeviTheGaelet

Like for like job, same hours, pay for those hours, years worked at the company etc. (and yes the dreaded maternity leave)

To say that women are working for nothing from 10th November 2016 is a ridiculous statement as it takes in to account pay from the very highest to the lowest paid, different jobs different responsibilities, even different firms.