...to feel depressed that only 7% of UK identify as Feminist?

[DioneTheDiabolist]

www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/2016/01/we-are-a-nation-of-hidden-feminists/

7% of the population and just 9% of women in this country identify as feminist. I'm not saying that everyone should call themselves feminist, I care more about what people do, rather than the label they assign themselves. But I am that the number is so low.

Given that most people believe in sexual equality, why do so many people not feel comfortable to call themselves feminist? And what (if anything) can we do about it?

she's fucking up the chances of a whole generation of girls going through her school.

Given the gap in educational attainment, it's very obvious that the chances of a whole generation of boys are being fucked up ?

In my PP, TF = typically female etc.

venusinscorpio

I very much doubt that you don't know a single woman who has ever been sexually assaulted, Mistoff. They just haven't told you about it. It's really not an uncommon thing to happen.

But as none of them have told me about it, what is the most sensible thing to believe, that they all have and none have told me or that, until they tell me it happened, none have?

I'm not saying all of them have as I'm quite sure you're aware. Just that it's very likely some of them have. Whether they choose to share that with you or not.

You're right. It's statistically unlikely none of them have. I'd hazard a guess it's much more statically unlikely (as another poster said) that every woman she knew had been sexually abused. I'm not calling her a liar, just talkiing about the numbers.

Mist by socialisation I meant the different ways in which boys and girls are treated from birth, by their parents, wider family and then the society/culture they find themselves in.

I only actually stopped to think fairly recently: hang on. Those times as a teenager, when someone's brother, or some bloke at a party, or walking home, came up behind me and started touching my arse and tits in situations where I felt I couldn't say HEY WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING GET OFF ME ... that really wasn't okay.

I bet I'm not unusual in this.

SpeaknoWords

I don't think they are. I think you (the general 'you') can search for micro aggressions and ever smaller things to be offended by but I don't think boys and girls are treated differently from birth.

I think the days of girls being sent off from boys to do 'girl activities' are long gone. The choice is there and I think the reason girls tend to do things traditionally seen as for girls is not patriarchy in action, it's because they choose to do so.

Have you ever looked at the clothes on sale for little children, Mist?

That's not what I see, having a baby and seeing the many different ways that boys and girls are treated differently even as tiny babies. It's not that girls and boys are separated and different activities done with them, that rightly doesn't happen very much anymore. It's about the way that people interact with children from the start, the way they expect them to behave, what they praise them for, what they frown upon them doing, what they encourage them or discourage them to do. How they play with them, how they speak to them, how they encourage them to play with others. How they speak about men and women, what examples of men and women they see around them. etc etc. A cumulation of many small things. These will all affect a child's development.

I wonder, do girls and boys that choose to do things/have an academic profile that goes against your gender expectations have something different about their brains - do you think they are somehow wired differently? A "boy" brain in a girls body perhaps? How does that situation come about?

Mistoffeleze

That comes down to parenting / social influence. I think the days of girls being sent off from boys to do 'girl activities' are long gone. The choice is there and I think the reason girls tend to do things traditionally seen as for girls is not patriarchy in action, it's because they choose to do so

Choose to see their mothers getting less pay, fewer work rights,? in US in 30 days. in many states. no reproductive autonomy?

And you are really part of the education game?

Girls are being conditioned to take part in a fiction that BME citizens do, we can do without more 'Uncle Toms'.

Funny how girls in a girls' school seem to more often participate in stereotypically 'boy' activities such as physics A level, robotics clubs etc than those in a mixed school, isn't it? If it was all simply down to girls' uninfluenced choice, why would this difference occur?

The choice is there and I think the reason girls tend to do things traditionally seen as for girls is not patriarchy in action, it's because they choose to do so PS, What is this tradition?

The choice is there and I think the reason girls tend to do things traditionally seen as for girls is not patriarchy in action, it's because they choose to do so

I'm surprised to hear a Head Teacher say that. As has been said on this thread (and elsewhere), how much of that 'choice' is steered by social expectations from birth?

It's a hard experiment to do but imagine you have children where the people interacting with them have no idea if they are a boy or a girl. If the child has 'no idea they are a boy or a girl' but just knows they are a child. If any media they are exposed to does not go on about 'this is what boys do, this is what girls do' etc. I wonder whether there'd be differences then in choice?

Children should be brought up as children. There's loads of research about how children are treated differently if they are a boy or a girl.The language used, the social expectations, the social rewards. Yes, even at school and nursery. It's often so subtle it's hard to see. And sometimes it's in your face obvious.

So ami are we to take from your posts that 35% more girls than boys attending university is still evidence of a deeply biased and unfair education system ? At what point would you admit that education in this country rather seems to suit girls ?

are we to take from your posts that 35% more girls than boys attending university is still evidence of a deeply biased and unfair education system

That statistic is interesting. If you dig deeper, you will find differences in the subjects studied, places available and applications.

When you say 35% more girls attending university, that does sound like a difference. However, if you dig deeper, you'll find it a lot more complicated. Subjects like English (that tend to attract more women) have a lot more places available compared to other subjects that tend to attract more men in general.

I could dig out the research on this. However, your headline statistic of 35% more women attending university is much more complicated once you dig deeper into the statistics.

girl where is that 35% figure coming from? Are there really 35% more women doing degrees?

re there really 35% more women doing degrees

There might be - however, you have to look 'beyond the number'.

When you look at subjects, applications and places available, then that headline statistic falls down.

You need to look at the actual data, the departments etc to see what is really happening. Just like in the gender pay gap. It's much more complicated than a simple stat. I will try and dig out the research on this - I think it was covered in More or Less.

Do you think that education in the UK favours boys more than girls then ?

It's not as simple as that. Gender is one factor as is ethnicity and poverty. You can't look at just one factor you need to look at the detailed picture. There are clearly areas where boys are not achieving what they could and the same for girls.

Do you think that education in the UK favours boys more than girls then

What do you mean by that?

www.theguardian.com/education/2016/jan/05/gender-gap-uk-degree-subjects-doubles-eight-years-ucas-study

Women are outnumbering men on a lot of degree courses - although men still outnumber women on 'traditionally male' courses like engineering and maths.

Is it because those courses seen as 'more female' have more places available so that's why there are more numbers on them?

Education shouldn't favour anyone.

From that link:

"The biggest gap is in nursing, where women outnumber men by nine to one, with 22,285 more female students than male. Psychology has the second biggest gender divide, followed by social work, education and design. Women are also ahead in areas such as history, philosophy, English, law and biology"

Nursing, psychology, social work and education. More women than men doing them - more women going to Uni. These aren't areas usually seen as 'male' subjects (except psychology maybe?)

People shouldn't use headline statistics to make policy decisions. The reality is much more complicated.

People are very fond of using headline statistics when it suits e.g. the gender pay gap without looking into nuances. What I mean by my question is why do you think girls outperform boys to such a large degree, why has this happened very recently ? Is the system failing boys ?

Yes the system is failing some boys, no doubt. There will be a variety of reasons why, which will need to take other factors into account. I think there needs to be more investigation into what's happening with university places.

Well I know that, the question is whether there is any evidence in your opinion, that the system favours one sex over the other ? Does it fail as many girls as boys ?

Bottom line is, all girls work and study harder, all women work and study harder, white men get most of the wealth and power.
Simple.
Observe, learn, act.