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Original poster

...to feel depressed that only 7% of UK identify as Feminist?

999 replies

DioneTheDiabolist · 18/12/2016 18:30

www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/2016/01/we-are-a-nation-of-hidden-feminists/

7% of the population and just 9% of women in this country identify as feminist. I'm not saying that everyone should call themselves feminist, I care more about what people do, rather than the label they assign themselves. But I am Sad that the number is so low.

Given that most people believe in sexual equality, why do so many people not feel comfortable to call themselves feminist? And what (if anything) can we do about it?

OP posts:
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5
DeviTheGaelet · 22/12/2016 13:36

Yep. Why not? Why do feminists need to fix it?

SpeakNoWords · 22/12/2016 13:37

I don't know why you think it's an either or thing, girl. Women and men can both campaign to remove the same sex based inequalities. Nothing is stopping men from campaigning too. Why would girls and women have to lose out somehow for boys and men to have an improved situation and outlook? It's not about creating winners and losers, surely?

amispartacus · 22/12/2016 13:38

So we have it on record that as far as you are concerned the best way to end the education gap (e.g.) is for men to form a group for and by men to exclusively promote the education of boys

What's wrong with men identifying systemic barriers that boys face in education and hoping to alter the system to remove those barriers?

DeviTheGaelet · 22/12/2016 13:39

Actually I feel like I'm being a feeder here. I am with Charlie. You aren't posting in good faith. I hope any lurkers can see you for what you are but I'm also out.

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 22/12/2016 13:41

No one said it was, not me anyway. What was said though was that where there was a problem that appeared to affect men then it was not reasonable to expect a feminist to wish to do anything about it.

Suppose that men got together and formed a group claiming to wish to end sexual discrimination. They then demanded that 50% of uni places were reserved for men, with the required reduction in prior educational attainment. What would you think of those men ? Be honest.

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 22/12/2016 13:42

What exactly, out of interest does "posting in good faith" look like ? Not challenging your ridiculous statements ?

SpeakNoWords · 22/12/2016 13:43

"They then demanded that 50% of uni places were reserved for men, with the required reduction in prior educational attainment."

What does "the required reduction in prior attainment" mean?

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 22/12/2016 13:44

It means they wouldn't have to meet the same requirements as girls.

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 22/12/2016 13:45

A quota in effect.

SpeakNoWords · 22/12/2016 13:48

Why would that help them at university? Wouldn't it be better to help them achieve a higher standard at school, to allow them to gain university places?

Do universities currently discriminate against boys/men, as in reject applicants with the relevant qualifications on grounds of their sex alone?

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 22/12/2016 13:54

I'm not suggesting it would be a good idea, I'm pointing out that to most people, the idea that men alone are responsible for addressing the gap in educational attainment is bizarre. And yet, that is what I have just been told by two posters who have since taken the huff.

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 22/12/2016 13:57

Universities dont have a quota for women

I think boys need the help at senior school

Too many of them seem to think that education is a waste of time with hard working studious boys being called geeks and nerds...and not in a nice way

SpeakNoWords · 22/12/2016 14:00

I don't think men alone should address it, but if men, as you seem to yourself, care particularly strongly about this issue then you should support or introduce measures to address it. Why wait for feminists to solve it for you when they've got a list as long as your arm of things that are more important to them.

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 22/12/2016 14:03

No one has said men alone are responsible

Just that why should feminists do it

I appreciate that i may have missed such a comment so if you could point it out i will of course retract my statement

bumbleymummy · 22/12/2016 14:11

Speak, the accusations of woman hating, not understanding/knowing what feminism is if you disagree with some of the feminist ideas being presented.

"If a man was encouraged financially to stay at home with their partner, would that be a good thing?"

Why encourage them to stay at home if there's no need for it? i don't agree with handing money out for the sake of it. Do you really need two parents at home for the first 6 months?

Ami, "But many relationships fail and usually it's the mum who ends up with the children and having to work around them whilst relying on the NRP for money. "

Again, I wouldn't see it as a disadvantage that I was more likely to keep the children. I would be heartbroken if they went with their Dad. I'm pretty sure DH would feel disadvantaged if the children ended up with me. I guess it depends on what you value more.

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 22/12/2016 14:16

Rufus

In response to my question about whether the best way to end the education gap would for men to form a group for and by men to exclusively promote the education of boys. Devi replied straight afterwards saying "Yep. Why not?"

Just that why should feminists do it

Because, feminists claim that all feminism is about as an end to sex based inequality. But you see - that actually they do not, as this thread has once again proved.

SpeakNoWords · 22/12/2016 14:17

It puts feminists into an almost impossible position though, I think, if you're not allowed to point out that a statement made about feminism isn't accurate/true. Would that be a requirement of other types of beliefs/activism?

I must admit I can't recall the woman-hating accusations on this thread, were they made in recent pages? I can't search through on the phone app.

SpeakNoWords · 22/12/2016 14:22

girl no one has said they don't want an end to sex based inequalities, they have said that feminism focuses on girls/women, where there are many areas that need addressing. Prioritising issues that boys/men may face is not the focus or centre of feminism. If you want to centre and focus on it, then good for you, go for it.

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 22/12/2016 14:28

If you want to centre and focus on it, then good for you, go for it.

My worry is that it really will become a battle of the sexes, men already are just starting to form groups that specifically address what the perceive as mens issues. As i understand it this has largely been met with incredulity, especially if it is (as i think it is) claimed that some of those issues are because of womens advocates i.e. feminists. None of this is going in the right direction. Either people work together to make things better or they form groups focussed on outcomes for their own sex. Anyway - I think I have said enough on this thread, that is my current opinion largely.

bumbleymummy · 22/12/2016 14:31

Speak, Pointing out that a statement is inaccurate is not the same as saying that someone doesn't know/understand what feminism is if they don't believe x,y,z or accusing them of hating women if they don't agree with a,b,c.

"Prioritising issues that boys/men may face is not the focus or centre of feminism."

Well perhaps that's the answer to the question of the thread then. Maybe more women support the idea of equality in general - addressing issues that have negative impacts on everyone rather than solely focusing on issues for women.

amispartacus · 22/12/2016 14:32

Again, I wouldn't see it as a disadvantage that I was more likely to keep the children

Would you feel financially disadvantaged if you ability to earn money was affected by decisions you took as a couple? I don't think it's about 'keeping' the children - but in many separated couples, a lot of the parenting responsibilities falls to the mum - and that included appointments. holiday care, child care after school, school runs - which does have a MASSIVE impact on the mum - and the children.

amispartacus · 22/12/2016 14:34

Maybe more women support the idea of equality in general - addressing issues that have negative impacts on everyone rather than solely focusing on issues for women

I think that you can be both. I don't think it's a binary decision.

Being a feminist DOES NOT mean you don't support equality in general.

SpeakNoWords · 22/12/2016 14:35

Interesting that you think it's inevitable that it's a contest and a winner/loser scenario. That's it's not possible for things to improve for everyone.

The problem I see with working together is that from your point of view there are no issues now for girls and women (in the UK at least), nothing that needs addressing or resolving. So you're asking feminists to agree with you on that, and then further, to focus on issues that you think are affecting boys/men negatively.

amispartacus · 22/12/2016 14:37

Why encourage them to stay at home if there's no need for it

To help develop a much fairer system later on and to help develop the attitude that both men and women can do childcare?

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 22/12/2016 14:40

Being a feminist DOES NOT mean you don't support equality in general.

Good - however it does seem to mean that you don't focus on equality in general, but equality for women where you perceive women suffer inequality. That is quite a different thing and I think it is what people off, that and the idea that we can expect a bunch of mens activist groups to spring up in the coming decades (IMO).