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AIBU?

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Original poster

...to feel depressed that only 7% of UK identify as Feminist?

999 replies

DioneTheDiabolist · 18/12/2016 18:30

www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/2016/01/we-are-a-nation-of-hidden-feminists/

7% of the population and just 9% of women in this country identify as feminist. I'm not saying that everyone should call themselves feminist, I care more about what people do, rather than the label they assign themselves. But I am Sad that the number is so low.

Given that most people believe in sexual equality, why do so many people not feel comfortable to call themselves feminist? And what (if anything) can we do about it?

OP posts:
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amispartacus · 22/12/2016 11:39

preparedtobeshotdown

And you've noticed no one shot you down Grin

I wouldn't criticise anyone for their choices. Choice is a personal thing. I do think we live in a society which is full of expectations - just look back to my mother's and Grandma's generations and the expectations on women there. (and men as well).

Expectations are changing. People are making more choices about how they live their lives and live within a couple. How they bring up their children.

I do wonder what Western society will look like in my son's generation.

FourKidsNotCrazyYet · 22/12/2016 11:42

I absolutely do not think I'm a feminist and do t want to ever be labelled one. I find it sexist in its own right tbh. I'm a SAHM. I love it and feel that I am ridiculed by many woman for it. I believe in equality, I feel my husband and I are perfectly equal and so does he. I don't need a full time job to prove that or have the same ideas and lifestyle either.

ClaudiaApfelstrudel · 22/12/2016 11:46

four I have all of those things and I'm a proud feminist. For me being a feminist doesn't mean anything other than that you are interested in improving the world from a female point of view. The are lots of 'feminisms' that you can take or leave

amispartacus · 22/12/2016 11:48

I absolutely do not think I'm a feminist and do t want to ever be labelled one

What do you think being labelled as a feminist would look like?

What do you think it means to be a feminist?

SpeakNoWords · 22/12/2016 11:49

FourKids, I don't know if it matters to you, but I wouldn't ridicule anyone for being a SAHM or choosing not to work. I value looking after children as highly as paid employment. I think many many feminists would agree with that. I'm sorry that other women have ridiculed you for your choices. Feminism isn't about making women work, or making fathers stay at home. It's about enabling people to make a freer choice for themselves, for no one to feel compelled or expected to do one or the other.

I don't know how feminism is itself sexist. Can you tell me more about aspects that you find sexist?

amispartacus · 22/12/2016 11:51

It's about enabling people to make a freer choice for themselves, for no one to feel compelled or expected to do one or the other

This.

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 22/12/2016 11:55

But if you think gender roles shouldn't be enforced, that makes you a feminist in my eyes.

I think the vast majority of people, including me, when asked would say that girls and boys should be able to do whatever they want without judgement about whether they are being "girly" or "like a boy". That doesn't make you a feminist. I would say that to be a feminist you need to believe that men oppress women.

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by this statement as something about the grammar is losing me. But I think you mean that men shouldn't be expected to be macho?

What I meant was that if a man was "macho" - that you wouldn't want to encourage this, despite it being a gender role. So the earlier statement that people who did conform to gender roles wouldn't be judged either, since the "man" role needs in your opinion to be pruned.

preparedtobeshotdown · 22/12/2016 11:56

yes i am pleasantly surprised that i wasn't shot down. :)

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 22/12/2016 11:56

I should use preview. If there are negative "male" behaviours which are gendered, then those would indeed be up for judgement and be discouraged by feminists I would expect.

amispartacus · 22/12/2016 11:57

I would say that to be a feminist you need to believe that men oppress women

I would say that is wrong. But we do live in a society where gender roles have been enforced and there has been a lot of change - but systems of power still favour men. It is changing slowly.

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 22/12/2016 11:57

I consider myself to be a feminist

Was a sahm for years and i still only work 8hours a week

Dont do all the housework or anything like that

I belive that women shoukd have equal rights and opportunities...thats pretty much it

BeyondIBringYouGoodTidings · 22/12/2016 11:58

Those who feel looked down on for taking on the majority of childcare... I'd argue if someone said that to me that they were looking at childcare through the lens of someone who only cares about monetary value and devalues childcare as a vocation. And that (if they claimed to be feminist), devaluing stereotypical female work is a very capitalistic male-world-view way to look at things Xmas Wink

SpeakNoWords · 22/12/2016 12:02

If by "macho" you mean violent to women and other men, then yes I think that should be stopped and I would criticise anyone for that. I think that some elements of current masculinity are not ideal, e.g. boys/men being encouraged not to show emotion. I would discourage these from being promoted. I would not criticise an individual man for finding it difficult to express his emotions. I wouldn't criticise an individual man for working a long hours job to earn money for his family, and consequently not seeing his children much. I would want to change things so that it would be easier for him not to have to do that, should he wish not to.

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 22/12/2016 12:12

ami

Well according to your definition I would be a feminist in that case. I think the difference is perhaps that I regard "gender roles" as being mostly an evolutionary mechanism rather than something created by and for men to subjucate women. Same as morality.

amispartacus · 22/12/2016 12:17

Well according to your definition I would be a feminist in that case

Welcome to the cause Grin

Look forward to seeing you challenge society's expectations of gender roles.

amispartacus · 22/12/2016 12:20

s being mostly an evolutionary mechanism

Evolution doesn't happen by itself when it comes to humans. Some things need a 'push'.

Gender expectations have changed a lot in the last 100 years. It's taken a lot of influences, pressure and changes to make that happen.

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 22/12/2016 12:28

I think that there has been a trend to encourage girls and women in education more than boys, driven by the belief that girls need help to break through the "system" which naturally prefers boys and men. I think tbh, this is having a pretty disastrous impact given the massive gap in educational attainment and it will be very interesting to see how this plays out in the coming decades.

DeviTheGaelet · 22/12/2016 12:30

think the difference is perhaps that I regard "gender roles" as being mostly an evolutionary mechanism
Gender roles are social and can be taken by men or women.

Sex based differences probably do have an evolutionary cause but it's very difficult to disentangle biology from socialisation. Most studies suggest non-physical differences between men and women are almost impossible to prove.

I don't believe there are any evolutionary reasons for society to expect that women should be murdered by male partners, locked in sheds because their natural bodily functions are deemed "impure", subjected to groping, catcalling, rape, abused on twitter and the like.
Similarly I don't see why a man like Ore Aduba should be ridiculed for crying where women are consoled. I can't see any evolutionary benefit to that.

CharlieSierra · 22/12/2016 12:31

What so you think the idea of a woman being taken from her fathers house and given away to her husband isn't created by and for men?

SpeakNoWords · 22/12/2016 12:31

The situation in education is more complex than male/female. Results are analysed in a variety of ways that looks at combinations of gender, ethnicity, poverty etc etc. As a teacher you're responsible for analysing why different groups in your class have under performed, and you're expected to make changes to try and ensure that changes.

DeviTheGaelet · 22/12/2016 12:34

girl so when females are disadvantaged (e.g. gender pay gap) this is caused by evolutionary reasons but when males are disadvantaged (e.g. gcse results) this is caused by structural issues in the system? Hmm

amispartacus · 22/12/2016 12:35

I think that there has been a trend to encourage girls and women in education more than boys, driven by the belief that girls need help to break through the "system" which naturally prefers boys and men

You mean getting them into STEM subjects (where there are barriers at school) and encouraging girls and women to gain qualifications.

I think that's a good thing. Relationships do break up and it is useful to have qualifications so you don't have to rely on the NRP for income.

I think tbh, this is having a pretty disastrous impact given the massive gap in educational attainment

What gap are you referring to? Girls are doing better (in general) at school. I am sure there are lots of reasons why - and these need to be addressed so everyone achieves to their potential. Attitude to education is so important as is having the right education to suit the children.

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 22/12/2016 12:49

girl so when females are disadvantaged (e.g. gender pay gap) this is caused by evolutionary reasons but when males are disadvantaged (e.g. gcse results) this is caused by structural issues in the system?

The gap in educational attainment is a very recent and unless you believe that girls are just smarter than boys then there could not be any other explanation for it.

The idea that men are encouraged to be aggressive (within certain broad parameters) because it was advantageous to a society to have groups of men who could be directed to use violence against others, is not controversial.

What so you think the idea of a woman being taken from her fathers house and given away to her husband isn't created by and for men?

This still happens all the time does it ? The whole thing around marriage traditions I don't know much about but these systems were not invented for either "shits and giggles" or because "men hate women" as previous posters appear to have suggested. If i had to guess I would say it's possibly rooted in the fact that women are the limiting factor in the continuation of the species and in ancient cultures women would have needed men to protect them from other men.

amispartacus · 22/12/2016 12:52

The gap in educational attainment is a very recent and unless you believe that girls are just smarter than boys then there could not be any other explanation for it

So you think the system needs to be examined to make things fairer for men and women?

Welcome to feminist thinking Grin

bumbleymummy · 22/12/2016 12:54

I think the last few pages of this thread show why many women don't want to identify as feminists.

Just picking up on one point, why would a man need 6 months paternity leave alongside a woman? From a financial point of view, one parent should probably be earning their full wage and, as women are biologically equipped to nourish a young baby, it just makes more sense for the man to continue working. Personally, I don't see that as me being disadvantaged. I'd rather be at home than in work expressing milk several times a day.