...to feel depressed that only 7% of UK identify as Feminist?

[DioneTheDiabolist]

www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/2016/01/we-are-a-nation-of-hidden-feminists/

7% of the population and just 9% of women in this country identify as feminist. I'm not saying that everyone should call themselves feminist, I care more about what people do, rather than the label they assign themselves. But I am that the number is so low.

Given that most people believe in sexual equality, why do so many people not feel comfortable to call themselves feminist? And what (if anything) can we do about it?

ami

Your doing that thing again where you just keep asking questions and don't answer any others.

Do you think that as a statement "men hate women" is accurate ?

Your doing that thing again where you just keep asking questions and don't answer any others

I answered it before.

I don't think you know what feminism is about. If you are so concerned about women's issues, wouldn't it be better to engage?

Unless you aren't really concerned about women's issues?

I answered it before.

No you didn't. Is it an accurate statement or not ?

What exactly is it that you are proposing can be done to either remove hatred from the world or manage it better - that others, including men, have missed.

I am proposing that we call out male violence as the problem. I am proposing we stop making excuses for male violence by victim blaming. I am proposing we expect our judiciary to adequately sentence men who are convicted of violence and not put so much weight on mitigation circumstances.
I'm proposing we deal with anti-women sentiment as a hate crime or incitement to hatred, like we do for racist or homophobic abuse.
I'm proposing we implement 6 months paternity leave on a use it or lose it basis so men are incentivised to more actively look after their children. Then women won't experience a career penalty and men will benefit in custody arrangements.
I'very said all this on threads before.

No you didn't. Is it an accurate statement or not

Do men hate women? No.

But a lot of women have experienced the hate of some men.

So - what do you think feminists want?

Oh actually there is loads

I propose we start criminalising men 2ho think they can buy access to women for sex.
I propose we improve sex education in schools to cover pornohraphy soon teen boys start to realise porn =/= real life sex and girls realise they don't have to do acts they won't need necessarily enjoy.
I propose we focus foreign aid in providing safe toilets, sanitary products and contraception to women in developing countries.
I propose we put the same focus on encouraging boys into caring careers as we do to women in stem.

God there is loads and loads we could do.

Devi

Who's "we" ? Thought men should bog off as feminism doesn't affect them ? Who's supposed to enact all the punishments for these crimes ?

"I did not say that women had not been treated poorly throughout history, what I challenged was the contention that there is indisputable evidence that "men hate women". "

So. If you acknowledge that historically men treated women poorly, but not that there is evidence that (again, historically) men hate women, why do you think they did it?
Shits and giggles?

Who's "we" ? Thought men should bog off as feminism doesn't affect them ? Who's supposed to enact all the punishments for these crimes

If that's your response to devils statements, I think that says enough about you and your attitude towards women.

girl I don't think I said that
You are proving the point about the patriarchy though because you have just said yourself that we can't improve things for women as men have the power. So what do you think we (humanity) should do?

Why did they treat other men badly ? I think you will find that men historically have always claimed to love women, and the most women would have gone through their lives having felt loved by men. How many enslaved africans do you think would say that ? Are they just not very good at hating women, is that it ? Is it half hearted ?

ami

What's the answer though ?

So what do you think we (humanity) should do

I don't think girl (strange name for a man) thinks there are any issues that affect women that need changing.

He's certainly not going to answer any questions.

I think you will find that men historically have always claimed to love women, and the most women would have gone through their lives having felt loved by men.
Another ignorant statement. Historically most marriages were made for political/financial advantage and most women were required to be faithful so their offspring could be guaranteed to be the husbands. As the family was his chattel.
There is no evidence at all to suggest "most women would have gone through their lives feeling loved by men".
I don't know what else to say. Your perspective is so skewed it's funny and you can't even see it. You just think your opinion is naturally correct with nothing to back it up.
As fun as it is debating with someone not very educated, I think I don't have much else to add to this now.

ami I'm thinking about that bi go card now we've derailed onto slaves. Surprised we haven't heard about the ME "real feminists" yet

I'd just love for girl to say at least one thing they think feminists want.

ami - has girl admitted to being a man, then? I must have missed that, but suddenly it all becomes a lot clearer if that is indeed the case.

Historically most marriages were made for political/financial

Bullsh!t. You are telling me that over the last 100 or so years, most women went through life never feeling loved by a man and only got married for political or financial reasons ? Come off it. And FWIW i was not the one who equated women and slaves.

Your perspective is so skewed

This is interesting. You think that men hate women, and most women go through their lives never having felt loved by any men. And I'm the one with the skewed perspective ?

Erm yes you were At no point in history am I aware of any evidence men wanted to enslave all women, remove them from society
I was just pointing out there is evidence men did that.
I see that since I posted the link about the changes in the law you've shifted the time frame for "historically"9 to the last 100 years. Convenient.

I haven't said anything about whether or not most women felt loved. How would I know? You are the one who asserted it as if it was a fact. If you say something, back it up.

So, as I said upthread, I think a lot of change has to come through modelling to children. I think that there is change happening as more women work and children see that men and women both work and both do household jobs etc.

DS knows that both parents will take time off if he is sick. Both parents work around him and that both parents take responsibility within the house. I hope that this modelling of behaviour rubs off on him in the future.

as my name suggests i am prepared to be shot down. a friend recently told me i 'wasn't exactly a feminist' because i chose not to argue against everything my DH said. i had tried to give her advise and said to pick your battles. that's the advice i would give to anyone in a relationship of any kind if they are close or it was really something stupid and didn't need to egg the other person on. my reply was well it depends what you call a feminist. she feels she needs to retaliate to everything other wise she is not a feminist....

i don't class myself as a feminist. why? because what exactly is a feminist? is it wanting the same pay as men? same treatment as men? to be superior to men? no i don't think so. but thats my opinion. I think we should all be equal, yes. but to a certain extent. this is where you will all soot me down!

i don't believe women can have it all. or men either for that matter!

i believe we have gender roles. but doesn't mean we have to follow them of course.

but for example.

women tend to be the one who stays home with the kids. it happens. why? because they need to recover, bond with the baby and have a natural mothering instinct that a lot of men won't have. let's be honest. so in my opinion. yes she might earn a bit less than a man for the reason that she might have kids. i'm not saying that is right! so hold your horses! but i can understand the logic behind it. especially as someone who co owns a business. i can see from both sides. why would someone pay you to not be there.... when a man will be.

of course if you don't have kids or plan to then this should be different.

but i think this is something people will just have to accept. women have it good here. we say we get paid less etc but we get maternity pay! for being home with a baby! we get sick pay, holidays and a lot of employers, again i know not all, will be flexible if your child is ill etc.

i think women don't realise but they do have it better than men.

men get moaned at for not helping when they have been working too. I'm aiming this at families with kids. again i am not a feminist apparently because i choose to do the house chores and raise the kids and help with the business when i can and hubby 'only' has to work. but he has the stresses that i don't and vice versa.

actually i feel sorry for men in this day and age and the treatment and back lash they get form 'feminists'.

i believe in equal treatment and respect but sometimes it is just not possible.

i hope that makes sense, and i accept i will be shot down.

I was just pointing out there is evidence men did that.

There is no evidence of any industrial scale manifestation of their hatred of women. If you look at other examples of groups "men" hated, but still needed, we can see a clear difference. Can we not ?

i think UK 'feminists' should compare themselves to women of other countries and still question if they are treated badly.

i accept i will be shot down

Actually, you wont. Most people probably agree with a lot of what you have said.