Page 21 | ...to feel depressed that only 7% of UK identify as Feminist?

DioneTheDiabolist · 2016-12-18T18:30:01+00:00

http://www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/2016/01/we-are-a-nation-of-hidden-feminists/ 7% of the population and just 9% of women in this country identify as feminist. I'm not saying that everyone should call themselves feminist, I care more about what people do, rather than the label they assign themselves. But I am [sad] that the number is so low. Given that most people believe in sexual equality, why do so many people not feel comfortable to call themselves feminist? And what (if anything) can we do about it?

amispartacus · 22/12/2016 09:35

In fact that approach just shows that at best you are indifferent to women's issues, even if not actively "hating" us

Coming on a forum where women are discussing issues that affect them and denying they exist because - as a man - you've not heard about them is an interesting approach to take.

amispartacus · 22/12/2016 09:36

one must first accept that society has a major problem regarding the way women are treated

Do you have a problem with the way women are treated today?

amispartacus · 22/12/2016 09:37

they're saying that there isn't any need for the changes you seem to want

What changes do you think feminists want to see?

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 22/12/2016 09:40

Some men do really hate women.

Who do you think that "men" hate more, women or other men ?

Coming on a forum where women are discussing issues that affect them and denying they exist because - as a man - you've not heard about them is an interesting approach to take.

ami

Please stop it. This is a THREAD (on a site for parents) about why people don't call themselves feminists. It is therefore perfectly reasonable to talk about whether that might be because people don't agree with the premise of it.

amispartacus · 22/12/2016 09:44

Please stop it

No. You've come on this thread and explained to women why they are wrong to be feminists.

I don't even think you know what feminism is and what feminists want. It would be great to hear what you think feminists want.

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 22/12/2016 09:45

ami

You are good at asking other people lots of questions without ever answering their ones.

I'll try again.

Why is the following sentence problematic "girls love pink and skipping" problematic, but yet this one : "it might mean they have never experienced men's sheer unadulterated hatred of them, just because they were born female" not ?

Why does a movement, which the vast majority of women apparently do not agree with, get to say that anyone who does not agree with them hate women ?

If you answer these questions, i'm happy to address yours. Thanks.

CharlieSierra · 22/12/2016 09:45

Please stop it. This is a THREAD (on a site for parents) about why people don't call themselves feminists. It is therefore perfectly reasonable to talk about whether that might be because people don't agree with the premise of it

They should be able to say why though, no? Why don't you answer any of the questions?

SpeakNoWords · 22/12/2016 09:46

I don't believe it's necessary to rank the behaviour of (some) men towards women, compared to the behaviour of (some) men towards other men.

It's not great that (some) men act appallingly to other men. It's not great that (some) men act appallingly towards women. The second one is what's being discussed here, not the first.

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 22/12/2016 09:46

You've come on this thread and explained to women why they are wrong to be feminists.

Where did I do that then ? I thought i hadn't explained anything ?

amispartacus · 22/12/2016 09:54

Where did I do that then ? I thought i hadn't explained anything

You are all over FWR and the other feminists threads on MN. You've denied the gender pay gap.

What do you think feminism is? What do you think feminism is about?

I honestly don't think you understand the issues and what feminism is.

amispartacus · 22/12/2016 09:59

Why is the following sentence problematic "girls love pink and skipping" problematic, but yet this one : "it might mean they have never experienced men's sheer unadulterated hatred of them, just because they were born female

Girls love pink and skipping - part of feminism is to ask why? Why do girls love pink? Is it innate - or is it because society tells them that girls love pink from birth?

There are women who have experienced male violence and the attitude of (some) men towards them. A lot of women have experienced the negative attitude of (some) men towards them - we live in a world where the President Elect of the USA seems to be one of those men who thinks he can treat women with contempt.

Why does a movement, which the vast majority of women apparently do not agree with, get to say that anyone who does not agree with them hate women

A lot of women may not agree with the word feminism but I suspect a lot of them would like to live in a world where their children experience the benefits of the aims of feminism and a change in the expectations of men and women.

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 22/12/2016 10:14

ami

So your answer is that there is nothing problematic with the statement "men hate women" ?

And your answer to the 2nd question is that "they don't understand it and should have no objection to it" ?

Lets suppose for a moment that the statement "men hate women" was indeed true in any meaningful sense. What evidence exists for this ? Historically western men actually did hate muslims, to this end they would invade their settlements and exterminate them, women and children. At no point in history am I aware of any evidence men wanted to enslave all women, remove them from society and use the ones they thought suitable only for breeding, which I assume they could have done if they really did hate women. So I do have a problem with the idea that men hate women.

As has been pointed out before, MN is a pretty middle class place, you perhaps type your anti male diatribes on a shiny macbook, yet you feel hard enough done by that your primary concern is that some men in your perception have it better than you.

DeviTheGaelet · 22/12/2016 10:18

Who do you think that "men" hate more, women or other men ?
Question is totally irrelevant to feminism. And I don't know because as a woman I've not experienced male on male violence. I haven't seen men receive the same public threats as women for expressing their point of view in public though.
But actually it doesn't matter. Because the problem in both those scenarios is the MEN doing the hating. Not the people on the receiving end. And as one of feminisms concerns is reducing toxic male behaviour, feminism will address both things.

DeviTheGaelet · 22/12/2016 10:22

At no point in history am I aware of any evidence men wanted to enslave all women, remove them from society and use the ones they thought suitable only for breeding

Bwahahaha you are forgetting the also need women to cook for them, raise their children and look after their house. And for most of history women have been chattels (which means property if their husband or father in a similar way to livestock or cattle) and so enslavery is exactly what happens.
Go and do some reading. Your ignorance is showing and your absolute certainty you are correct even when evidence shows otherwise should embarass you

amispartacus · 22/12/2016 10:22

As has been pointed out before, MN is a pretty middle class place, you perhaps type your anti male diatribes on a shiny macbook, yet you feel hard enough done by that your primary concern is that some men in your perception have it better than you

Anti male diatribes?

Who is responsible for most violence out there?
Who is responsible for most sexual assault out there?

Why do you think that is?

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 22/12/2016 10:25

Question is totally irrelevant to feminism.

Historically hatred of others and the consequences and management of that hatred has shaped entire civilisations. What exactly is it that you are proposing can be done to either remove hatred from the world or manage it better - that others, including men, have missed. Observing that men kill other human beings in great numbers and that this is bad is hardly controversial. Saying that oh - i'm only interested in the subset of hatred and the expression of it towards women, a view which in itself is controversial, seems a bit daft no ?

BeyondIBringYouGoodTidings · 22/12/2016 10:25

It's one thing to claim feminism has 'won' and quite another to state there is no evidence in history of men treating women poorly!!

I don't think you are trolling fwiw, but that is the kind of statement that makes it look like you are.

amispartacus · 22/12/2016 10:28

Saying that oh - i'm only interested in the subset of hatred and the expression of it towards women, a view which in itself is controversial, seems a bit daft no

Why? What issue do you have with women looking out for themselves?

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 22/12/2016 10:28

Bwahahaha you are forgetting the also need women to cook for them, raise their children and look after their house

Nope, they could get slaves or nannies to that for them if they really hated women, why would they let them near their boys ? They don't need them to cook for them at all. And to suggest that western women are somehow the equivalent of black slaves is pretty ridiculous.

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 22/12/2016 10:29

Why? What issue do you have with women looking out for themselves?

What you want is some men to stop other men from being mean to you.

amispartacus · 22/12/2016 10:30

girl

So - can you explain what you think feminism is?
What do you think feminists want?
What changes in society do you think feminists want to see?

DeviTheGaelet · 22/12/2016 10:31

Here you go girl
herstoria.com/?p=473

Also I started a thread yesterday titled "what's the point of feminism?" About a girl who had been banished to a shed in Nepal because she had her period. She suffocated because she had to light a fire to keep warm in the subzero temperatures.

Societies across the world put women at a huge disadvantage because of their gender. In this country where we have laws to ensure equality women are still overwhelmingly the victims of rape and domestic violence, and murder at the hands of their partner. You deny this, you are either stupid or wilfully gaslighting us in which case I can only conclude you do in fact hate women.

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 22/12/2016 10:31

It's one thing to claim feminism has 'won' and quite another to state there is no evidence in history of men treating women poorly!!

I did not say that women had not been treated poorly throughout history, what I challenged was the contention that there is indisputable evidence that "men hate women".

amispartacus · 22/12/2016 10:31

What you want is some men to stop other men from being mean to you

Mean ...FFS.

No DV
No rape
No sexual assault
No expectation that things are women's work.

DeviTheGaelet · 22/12/2016 10:32

Nope, they could get slaves or nannies to that for them
What gender slaves or nannies are you thinking of? Why would men want to enslave a subset of men and kill 50% of the population when they could in fact enslave those 50%? Oh, wait.....