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Original poster

...to feel depressed that only 7% of UK identify as Feminist?

999 replies

DioneTheDiabolist · 18/12/2016 18:30

www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/2016/01/we-are-a-nation-of-hidden-feminists/

7% of the population and just 9% of women in this country identify as feminist. I'm not saying that everyone should call themselves feminist, I care more about what people do, rather than the label they assign themselves. But I am Sad that the number is so low.

Given that most people believe in sexual equality, why do so many people not feel comfortable to call themselves feminist? And what (if anything) can we do about it?

OP posts:
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LastGirlOnTheLeft · 21/12/2016 22:34

Grilled, it isn't about being needy or pigeon holed!!! I am PROUD to be feminist!! I don't worry about other people's thoughts on me, I don't care if they hate me....I just embrace my compassion, concern and yes, LOVE for women and feminism suits how I feel best, so I use that term, no problem.

I deeply proud to be feminist. I LOVE that term for me....it suits me and I wear it and if people don't like it, tough!!

DeviTheGaelet · 21/12/2016 22:34

Oh I will hold my hand up to saying go away and read. To someone who said in their opinion there were no systemic barriers to females entering STEM. If someone is going to say something ridiculous as an "opinion" then yes, they need to do some basic research as to whether that opinion is valid.

LastGirlOnTheLeft · 21/12/2016 22:36

Sorry for typos.....too much Christmas cheer haha!!!! Xmas Wink

BoneyBackJefferson · 21/12/2016 22:38

amispartacus

With all due respect, times have moved on from the suffragettes and I am talking about teaching not started a movement.

But if you really believe that teaching boys in such a way that puts them off feminism, then there is no wonder that there is a problem with boys accepting feminism.

amispartacus · 21/12/2016 22:42

there were no systemic barriers to females

Systemic barriers is the thing. And choice. How we as individuals make choices is interesting and we don't make choices in a vacuum. So many of our choices are ruled by 'social penalties and expectations'. How we are moulded by society, the way we are treated, our perception of self and all that we see and hear around us.

I think that feminism (and other groups tackling issues around race, 'class', LGBT etc) is all about examining how we make choices and how society influences our choices. Identifying and breaking through systemic barriers.

Some people in life have more barriers to get through. I think a better analogy than the podium picture would be a race course with a goal at the end. Some people have a race course with no hurdles and have plenty of encouragement.

Some people have many hurdles, with people telling them they can't do it, changing the height of the hurdles, moving the goal posts etc etc.

A decent society would try to make that race as fair as possible.

amispartacus · 21/12/2016 22:44

But if you really believe that teaching boys in such a way that puts them off feminism, then there is no wonder that there is a problem with boys accepting feminism

I don't understand what you are talking about. How do you think boys are put off feminism?

Totherighttotheleft · 21/12/2016 22:58

It doesn't matter what the true meaning is. Majority of people think feminists have gone too far. It's not perfect in this country but it's pretty much equal by law. Except woman have more rights over children. I believe in equality. It does not matter what it says in the dictionary. How society understands and interprets the term is what matters

amispartacus · 21/12/2016 23:02

Majority of people think feminists have gone too far

In what way have feminists gone too far when tackling women's issues?

SpeakNoWords · 21/12/2016 23:03

How do women have more rights over children? Do you mean in the case of separated parents and residency/access?

amispartacus · 21/12/2016 23:04

Have they gone too far in asking Government to look at non payment of child maintenance?

Or is that a step too far for you?

BoneyBackJefferson · 21/12/2016 23:14

amispartacus
I don't understand what you are talking about. How do you think boys are put off feminism?

By having numbers thrown at them about how bad men are.
By talking at them instead of to them.
By the insinuation that by being male they are all things bad.

If you want to sell something (and that is what you are doing) you don't do it by putting off half of your target audience.

Bananabread123 · 21/12/2016 23:19

I think one problem many have with feminism is that it tends to hold, with the exception of obvious biological physical differences, that males and females are otherwise the same, and any difference is an inequality that needs to be challenged. It doesn't accept that men and women may, in general and on average, innately differ in ways other than their reproductive organs. instinctively many believe there are innate differences that go beyond simply the ability to reproduce, which play a part in things such as women tending to take a career break after children (thus reducing their ability to earn when they do go back to work, helping to maintain the male/female pay gap) that are more than simply cultural expectations propagated by a manipulative patriarchy.

amispartacus · 21/12/2016 23:21

By having numbers thrown at them about how bad men are
By talking at them instead of to them
By the insinuation that by being male they are all things bad

I think that's the wrong way too. But DS is aware of all the advantages he has of being a white, middle class male. He is aware of the issues facing girls. He will hopefully learn that he does not have to be defined by his work and that to be a good Dad / partner does not mean expecting his partner to do all the domestic stuff and childcare.

As he gets older, I hope he'll be aware of sexual harassment and will have the confidence to pull up his friends who don't treat women with respect. I hope he won't take part in sexist banter. I hope he'll understand consent and everything around that.

He'll be exposed in society to a lot of messages about girls and women. I hope he'll have the understanding of what is appropriate behaviour.

Alienating people does no good. You do have to have people on side and you have to make them understand the issues.

amispartacus · 21/12/2016 23:24

instinctively many believe there are innate differences that go beyond simply the ability to reproduce

that are more than simply cultural expectations propagated by a manipulative patriarchy

Maybe there's both. But some countries have more gender equality than others.

I am sure most people would like more gender equality, wouldn't they?

TheMortificadosDragon · 21/12/2016 23:30

I'd prefer sex equality and get rid of gender stereotypes entirely.

SpeakNoWords · 21/12/2016 23:32

I wonder why people are keen to hold onto the idea that men and women are innately different, with women's differences unfortunately making them lower down the ranking than men? Why is it so offensive or upsetting to challenge that and look at whether it's actually the case? Especially when there are so many examples of men and women that don't conform to these apparent innate differences.

Totherighttotheleft · 21/12/2016 23:38

I mean unless the father is a stay at home dad, women get the children during a separation. Look up the statistics. I'm not saying things are perfect. But in comparison to other cultures I think western women are doing ok. If I have a boss who looks at my boobs i can call HR and complain. If somebody on the street touches me I can complain. Etc. I'm not standing here in a burka covering my bruises unable to raise my voice! The fact that will always separate the sexes is that women carry children. Men have to step up and provide at a certain point. I totally agree that some men have no comprehension of what it feels like to be vulnerable as a woman, because we are during these times. I believe the solution is in the hands of mothers to teach their sons about equality about house word and loving independently. And before anyone starts on the Muslim race card. Muslim women are horribly oppressed...that's where feminism should be headed.

SpeakNoWords · 21/12/2016 23:44

"women get the children during a separation." Hmm. is it not that the primary caregiver continues to have the children stay with them, as that's best for the children. As women are more often the primary caregiver, then that is why more women continue to have the children. It's not an inequality in the system, and as you have already identified, it can be easily changed by men being more involved in childcare before any separation occurs.

TheWoodlander · 21/12/2016 23:47

Except woman have more rights over children.

Actually, that's not true. Children have rights in law, in the event of the separation of their parents.

These are: to contact with both parents (as long as it is in their interests and safe for them).

Family courts will attempt to keep the status quo as unchanged as possible for children, to minimise disruption for them - a continuity of care. So, in a society where the mothers do the lionshare of the childcare, the children will remain with the mother more often.

TheWoodlander · 21/12/2016 23:48

x-post with SpeakNoWords.

Totherighttotheleft · 21/12/2016 23:51

More women continue to have the children as they grow inside of our body and breast feeding is promoted. What do you suggest? Hand the baby over to the father 2 weeks later with a tub of formula and say good luck! Or a woman back at work pumping milk out of her breast to send home? Men and women are different sides of the same coin. We can do things they can't do...they supposedly do things we can't do. At the end of the day we need each other to create new little humans! The maternal instinct is strong.

Totherighttotheleft · 22/12/2016 00:01

Oh and if you actually read what I originally said, unless the father was a stay at home dad, then it would be in the fathers favour and rightly so. Anyone who takes care of the kids majority of the time should get priority

SpeakNoWords · 22/12/2016 00:01

I suggested earlier in the thread that men have longer paternity leave that is taken at the same time as women, rather than the current parental leave where men can take part of the leave and the woman return to work.

Totherighttotheleft · 22/12/2016 00:04

After the initial two weeks how many men actually want paternity leave? My husband seen it as a break from work. I've never seen him run so fast after the two weeks were over. I'm guessing "mine is in the minority" bollox

SpeakNoWords · 22/12/2016 00:17

Well it seems fairly popular in the Scandinavian countries where these sorts of schemes are being developed. I don't see why UK men would be wildly different?