To lol at the feminism threads....

[Hannah4banana]

Seriously are people constantly looking out for a way to be offended first world problems!

Women find it easier to get bottom end jobs; men get all the top jobs

You know what - it would be great to hear men's rights group talk about that....

But I can't remember seeing a men's right group discussing that.

Troll hunting again? Really? Isn't that against MN rules?

miss

Who is troll hunting and can you please do the link thing.

Well no they probably won't. Point scored. And what?

I couldn't get a low end job when I was unemployed. My friend reliably informed me that the proprietor of a cafe I'd applied to (who she knew) proudly admitted that she only employed girls because they're better with the customers.

Think about it, I should have gone for that position of High Court Judge advertised in my local gazette. Would have bagged that one over the pretty 20 year old with the winning smile.

In other words...Context.Is.Everything.

boundries

Ahhhh bless you, still waiting patiently for your link

Its not going to happen love...give it up...keep writing your santa letter...you are 100000000 times more likely to get a reply from him rather than miss

Thank you Speak. I did have a quick look and did find that paper. Then I found all the reasons why their research didn't prove what they suggested it did.

So, one day old babies don't show gender differences and we're still waiting for proof that gender differences are biological, rather than social.

Oh my abject apologies boundaries

My friend reliably informed me that the proprietor of a cafe I'd applied to (who she knew) proudly admitted that she only employed girls because they're better with the customers

Yes, Sexism exists. Men and women experience it.

Your point?

That men are sometimes the victim of it too; that patriarchy can give women advantages and present disadvantages to men; that it's all very complicated, basically.

It's Christmas Rufus. Season of hope and tinsel.

I'll keep hoping..

that patriarchy can give women advantages and present disadvantages to men;

Yes. And wouldn't it be better if society worked so such barriers could be overcome for all.

Feminism is not all about women. I think part of it is about men feeling empowered to be seen differently as well.

Mary Augustus Ward was one of the founding members of the white feather movement. She was an anti feminist who was asked to be the founding president of the Women's National Anti Suffrage League

Not a feminist at all, fancy that.

To expand, the thing is with these male dominated, and much more well-paid jobs is that there are proportionately few of them and they are inaccessible to huge swathes of the population. Whereas you can't move for jobs that favour women. Many of them pay fuck all, but if you want to get on the career ladder from the bottom you should be a white 18-25 year old woman from a middle-class background.

In other words, if you want to get A job you're better of being a woman. If you want to get a 300'000 K job you're better of being a man. Who's white. And middle-class. And Oxbridge educated.

My friend reliably informed me that the proprietor of a cafe I'd applied to (who she knew) proudly admitted that she only employed girls because they're better with the customers

Mostly male customers, I'd guess?
Not sure that shows actual sexism in relation to men.

i agree with your last comment amispartacus

well Lweji you have to weigh up the indignities. You're either a pretty little bit of decoration who brings in the tourists, or you attend Job centre meetings every week and sit at home staring out the window into a grey sky wondering if you have any value at all. I can't comment on the former but can tell you the latter is quite disempowering in its own right.

Admittedly, neither is a great choice. Which would you prefer?

Very admirable boundaries very admirable

Thanks Rufus

Soooo Miss?

What I was saying was that the reason he didn't get the job was due to sexism. If women weren't considered eye candy or "better with people", he could have got the job. So, dispelling the myths that "women are people friendly" and fighting for women not to be seen as pretty little things would, in fact, benefit your friend in getting a job.
So, feminism is good for him too. He might want to consider joining the feminist ranks and fight those prejudices. :)

Bardolino,

You will no more 'prove' that gender differences are biological than you will 'prove' that they are social. The one day old paper shown above has not (to the best of my knowledge) been discredited. Sure, you can find flaws if you really want to but so can you in any study.

It seems perverse to me, though, to not expect it to be a mixture of the two. Different chromosomes and different hormones would surely be expected to influence behaviour. And, in the case of hormones, it can clearly be shown to moderate adult behaviour.

Not read the paper in a while, but on a hormonal level - I'd imagine a one day old baby would still be rammed with oestrogen, be they male or female.

But no, you are right, 'proving' one way or the other is not going to happen as it would be a tad unethical to try.

And yes to lwejis post. I have two boys, I am a feminist as I believe it will benefit them in the long run, not just women.

Women find it easier to get bottom end jobs; men get all the top jobs

It depends what you class as a "top job" - and they certainly don't get "all" of them at all. I don't see many feminists pushing to get women into, scaffolding or roadwork. The fact that these "professions" are male dominated is of no concern. Technology, e.g. software engineering on the otherhand, despite being a spectacular success in this country and the west in general, is repeatedly criticised because not enough women want to do it. It's decreed that the industry will benefit massively just from binning half the men and replacing them with women, but i struggle to see any actual evidence to support this.

There was no friend - I applied for the job. My friend was the friend of the proprietor. Anyways..

You're right, but a lot of women are very happy to use their looks and youth to make money and would not appreciate men joining the ranks of the sisterhood to put a stop to that. Why would they? I would rather be exploited for my looks and have a roof over my head than be completely ostracized from society and in poverty. Or would I? I don't know. Poverty and complete negation or exploitation and being an object of male desire? Ho hum. People have had to do far worse things for money than look appealing.

Here's a novel idea: Why don't we all - men and women - campaign for secure, well-paid jobs and affordable housing for everyone. Let's build an order where people’s needs are prioritised over the interests of profit. Lets try and take back some of the obscene wealth from the billionaires who possess more wealth than 3.5 billion of the world's poorest people. Then no one has to be exploited OR rotting in unemployment.

My apologies, user. Too much thread hoping. :)