To lol at the feminism threads....

[Hannah4banana]

Seriously are people constantly looking out for a way to be offended first world problems!

"Yes we will lower the test scores so women do fewer press-ups"

Do we? I didn't know that.

You don't need a label at all. I love equality myself but I don't believe in the supernatural all-powerful bogeyman they call 'patriarchy '

I dont identify as femenist I just am I dont think it is a thing to identify as i dont identify as a woman i just am

The practical selection tests have changed since I entered my line of work. They do make it more achievable for all individuals who previously might have failed but it's benefited both men and women. Height, strength and eyesight tests are more relaxed and the fitness test has been changed to reflect female composition and v02 max levels .

Of course they are. Better for you to be in denial I suppose

Evidence?
Or does it fall on me to get evidence for your own arguments, as usual?

User- I think well-paid work and affordable childcare are really important, but I feel that there is a real lack of respect for raising children. That's not to say AT ALL that I think all women should stay at home for the pre-school years. But that doing so is seen as an easy option, the time "out" makes it hard to get back into paid employment and those things say to me that as a society we don't value it.
I find it hard work being at home with my children all day, even though I love them, and whilst the skills I use aren't necessarily directly transferable to the workplace, I believe that this time of unpaid work shouldn't have made me less employable in future. But as a society we are so pre-occupied with money making and judging success by capitalist standards that a prospective employer would likely see the 4 years I've been at home looking after my children, showing them the world, being responsible, teaching them values and nurturing them as a "break". My DH finds being at work less demanding than being with our DCs for a day and he fully respects what I do, but many wouldn't.

Hannah, do you know where I could find the figures for women applying for the Fire Service? I can find women employed and people (in general) who are successful in their applications, but not a breakdown by sex of those applying>successful.

Misswatch- have you had a chance to look out those threads on FWR where people were bullied off?

I've been told numerous times on this thread if I have certain beliefs I'm a feminist? All this time and I had no idea.

Of course you can, Hannah.

But I'd say that the problem with that approach is that it tends to come off as "I'm all right, Jack". And it doesn't change anything. Feminism isn't just about the choices that you yourself make, it's a movement with a political goal. You don't want to join that - fine. your choice. But to laugh at it, to not acknowledge that a lot of the privileges that you have in your life are as a result of feminism, to sneer at people who do believe in it...well, it's not kind, at best, is it?

Bertrand - why don't you equally challenge posters who claim e.g. "boys are told that books are for girls" ?

Great post Larry i haven't heard anyone deny this or state why (what seems like an obvious) your conclusion is incorrect.

I think one area feminism does itself no favours in the insistence that spectacularly successful industries like technology need to have a 50/50 sex split in order to be "successful" - this line is pushed by basically women in tech who skipped the tech part.

The problem with patriarchy is when its reified into a thing - as though there's this invisible force called the patriarchy exerting its malign influence.

^^that was a response to the question "can't I just be an independent woman". I type too slowly.

OP sorry if I lost the plot but following on from the fact that I can't see the stuff you reference on the feminist boards, I think you've also mentioned headbands - was that you? It was in AIBU, not Feminist chat.

Also, whilst in many cases people can't afford to be a SAHM, in our case we couldn't afford for me to work and pay for 2 children to attend nursery as it would put me into a negative income!

They are told that they aren't as clever as girls when they are young, so don't bother trying.

These things are most definitely said to boys and men.

Bertrand - Evidence please ?

Hmm it's probably broken down into each service area. I know in my area 1.5% of full time firefighters are female and 0.8% are of ethnic origin. Shocking statistics and they really have tried so hard to get more females recruited through positive action events. Short of forcing them I don't know how that will ever meet the diversity targets.

Nope that wasn't me.

"Bertrand - why don't you equally challenge posters who claim e.g. "boys are told that books are for girls" ?"

Sorry, don't understand.

Why would I challenge it when I know it's true? Otherwise why would there be special intitatives and interventions in school to encourage boys to read?

YABU and a bit silly.

YA also BU if you think that the feminism boards here or radfems = feminism. It's one perfectly respectable strand of it - a bit like saying Arsenal fans = all football fans.

Patriarchy is an excuse used to justify double standards. Why would men make a system that puts other men at a disadvantage?

Wait, a feminist wrote about patriarchy in a book so it must be true

Fire service bullied my female relative out of a job. She's no pushover either, 'strong independent woman' and then some. Won the case but at what cost.

I've already apologised for the flippant topic title about 6 pages back. I'm still glad I stated the topic as there's Bern some really good posts and I've been Interested to read all the replies and probably learnt more about feminism than I ever knew so thanks for that. I still dont identify as a feminist though.

Bertrand

I thought you didn't like unsubstantiated statements. My mistake.

Fair points Fuckity - but it does come down to the question of how we create more remunerative work so that a good job is available to everyone - including women who have spent five years raising children.

I'm not sure there is an easy answer to the question. Good work is becoming more and more scarce. Hardly anyone but the middle-class elite even has a contract of employment anymore.