To ask a very personal question about vaginas after birth?

[PuppyCottonLane]

I've had 2 kids and before I had kids I hated the way my vagina in general looked. My labia always hung slightly lower than the outer lips if you see what I mean and gave a rather "man in a boat" appearance

When I had my daughter I had an episiotomy and required a lot of stitching for second degree tears. After the birth I noticed everything was a lot tighter.

When I had my DS he tore open the episiotomy scar and all the scar tissue from the tears and again I had to be sewn up. Some friends said that your vagina in general never looks the same after birth.

My husband commented to me yesterday that childbirth has changed the look of my nether regions. On enquiring what he meant he said that my labia no longer hangs down past my lips (he's right) and my outer lips are a lot tighter and not as loose.

Is this a common thing if you've had an episiotomy/required a lot of stitching? I'm just curious as to why the appearance had changed quite dramatically (to the point of where I'm no longer embarrassed) in the space of 3 years? Odd thread but can't imagine broaching this subject with the other mums at the school gates

pmsl (literally)

I have no inner labia after 2 episiotomies a third degree tear which left me incontinant for six months due to a ripped sphincter and 2 second degree tears.
It no longer looks the same but im lucky i have no problems.

It just me who reads these threads and immediately start doing me pelvic floor exercises ?

Nope. I do them regularly. My lady bits may not look as good as they did before 3 kids, but they work just as well as they always have.

Ok I'm 44 now but had my two at 23 and 25. Always been tiny. 5'1" and 8 stone, sometimes less. My DD was 8'8oz and 53cm long. Jesus. But no tears, etc, just snapped back to how I was.

However, my skin (my poor skin after pre-eclampsia and 4 stone weight gain with DS) is another matter.

Fight with a tiger anyone?

caroldecker and Benedikte2 (cool name btw), can I ask what country you're in? I heard in the US they're still doing episiotomies rather than allowing women to tear, in spite of the up-to-date evidence saying tears are generally less serious and heal better. It was suggested that this might be because an epi is another procedure that can be billed for, which is terrible if true.

I'm in the US, we have the info on tearing being better than an episiotomy, too. Doctors do things differently; if you don't want an episiotomy, you just have to tell the doctor ahead of time.

I've had three episiotomies with no issues.

Oh, and none of my doctors cut me until I had already started to tear.

I'm really not sure how I feel about having never looked

shakey💐 You poor thing, that sounds horiffic for you. I hope they find enough muscle etc to repair you.

My friend has had cancer this year (just got the all clear - wahoo!) and due to complications beforehand ended up with a bag. She might get a reversal next year, but needs some tests first. She said though, that having the bag hasn't been as awful as she thought it would be and that if she can't get a reversal she will obviously be upset, but not distraught, which she would have thought before she had it. I hope you don't need to find out though.

everyone who saw my fanny post birth (way more than I would have expected!) said 'oh what a good job with the stitches'. The surgeon himself preened somewhat and described it as some of his best ever work

at the mass viewings of Garden's fanny. Did you sell tickets?

Thanks Annie and I'm so pleased for your friend!

Thanks also stopfucking, my nethers are very grateful for your tears

RedGold My information is from NICE and NCT. The NHS says:

Recent studies suggest that in first-time vaginal births, it is more common to have severe injuries involving the anal muscle if the perineum tears spontaneously rather than if an episiotomy is cut.

Please can you provide evidence that tears repair better or stop spreading misinformation.

Surgeons do not tear people apart in surgery to 'get a better healing'

I thought tears were better than epis because HCPs can get a bit trigger happy with epis and a small tear is better than a epi done in advance which may be more than you need. My tear only needed two stitches and was quite small, I'm sure if I'd been cut they would have gone for something bigger. Also being cut means you have to be on your back which is not a good labouring position and can be a self-fulfilling prophecy regarding needing a cut.

Pasanda you may laugh and I did say it was unlikely. But you find me an 18 year old - boy or girl - who hasn't seen porn. These are our future midwives and in their formative years in the playground they are being exposed to 'designer vaginas'.

carol, I have had babies over 10lb and no episiotomy nor even a tear.

Everything I read suggests that episiotomy is not recommended in the case of a large baby.

Breech babies are usually delivered by C Section.

And OP, it has never once occurred to me to look, either before or after children.

caroldecker - there is a lot of evidence out there that says that for low risk births, routine episiotomy is contraindicated.

Current NICE guidance says that you shouldn't have a routine episiotomy

I was always taught that tears heal better than an epis when birth and repair is managed properly. Just re-read the NICE intrapartum care pathway and it was updated in November and still recommends not offering routine epis. So pretty happy that that is still the advice.

www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg190/ifp/chapter/if-you-need-an-episiotomy

Yup. "You should not be given an episiotomy routinely".

TMI BUT
Op, I have had 1 dc and almost exactly the same story, my inner labia used to chafe when I wasnt wearing knickers, it was so uncomfortable and yes, it did look ugly. I was cut due to ds hr dipping, the stitches were so painful though 3 locals and no pain relief from those, was the worse part of the whole birth, I told them to leave it or put me under ga but they refused, glad they did as it looks so much better now.

It's like how they are revising the guidance for how many examinations a labouring woman should have. Exams are all well and good and I'm not saying they're bad in themselves, but a woman labouring on all fours should not be being asked to lie on her back, for an exam, a cut, or anything else unless really necessary. It does interrupt the flow of labour and the risks of doing that are just starting to be taken more seriously.

Also yes- it's better to see what happens rather than go for epis for a number of reasons, one being that you don't know that you're going to tear or as badly as a second degree (which an epis is classed as), there's no guarantee you'll have another one even if you had a 3rd or 4th the first time. Although in that instance I'd be really SUPER careful of looking after that woman's perineum and making sure it's up to going through birth another time (our docs do scanning and all sorts of sphincter tests to make sure the tissue viability is good enough).

Women all look different. Porn gives such an unrealistic view of things. Jamie McCartney's Great Wall of Vagina is a good starter of lots of different examples of 'normal'! (I'm on it and sadly not sure I'd recognise myself although I've looked at what I look like... just not sure I could pick it out in a plaster cast line up!).

And rcog state that episiotomy is associated with increased risk of third and fourth degree teats and reduced healing.

www.rcog.org.uk/en/guidelines-research-services/guidelines/episiotomy---query-bank/

carol I think you are slightly confused about the information you have read. Anal sphincter damage is generally less in episiotomies than natural tearing as the purpose of an episiotomy is to avoid anal sphincter damage if it looks like a woman will tear badly at the point of the pushing stage of labour. This does not however advocate routine episiotomy as tears tend to heal better and a lot of women do not tear at all so would needlessly sustain perineal damage.

I had a bad tear and an episiotomy, greedy I was. Though to be fair, the epi didn't cause the tear: I begged for the epi because I could feel I was going to tear- dd's head was completely stuck for about an hour.

Haven't really cared to look down there since my GP told me that I owed it to my dd to have it restitched "because the best thing you can give your little girl is a father". Dh is still around, though, and as this was a good 20 years ago I have to conclude that Dr FancyVaginas didn't know everything.

I never said episiotomies should be routine, but should be when there is a risk of tearing. A cut is always better than a tear, but no cut and no tear is best.
Therefore, if no indications of a tear then nothing, if a tear is indicated, then an episiotomy is better than a tear.
Anyone saying a tear heals better should be shot because they are talking bollocks and there is no evidence to support this.
If tears were better, why do surgeons use scalpels?

I had an episiotomy with my first and it ruined my sex life. 21 years later and my perineum will never recover I don't think.

Surgeons don't care about after, its all about a safe delivery.