Fuming that they are talking of taking away pensioner bus passes and the triple lock

[jdoe8]

I'm still 40 years before I will get these, but I think we need to fight to keep these for future generations.

For many people they will have left school at 16 and worked until they were 65. Now after all those years of paying their taxes they aren't getting much back so the very least we need to do is allow them to travel and guarantee that their income will rise every year.

I'm 34 and have long realised that I'm fucked, really.

Yep. My grandparents were both in WW2 and actually did something to deserve everything they got (although my grandma felt guilty about it as she'd only worked for a few years). Today's pensioners have had it easy. Even those who are struggling now have had breaks in life that many of us will never get now. There's no denying that, surely?

I think it is disgusting of the baby-boomer generation, the ultimate selfish generation, are spared any hardship.

They have to pay for their care in old age. Other groups of people who need home care or care homes don't have to pay. Seems like hardship to me. Only the old have to pay for their own care.

My DCs are doing fine, they aren't a lost generation, they have jobs and mortgages and holidays. Better holidays than I had at their age. Their friends are doing just fine as well.

Generalisations are rarely impressive in argument.

I got my first job in 2005, it took me about 5 years to realize that the government would never help me. This came true when my wife was made redundant. We received no help at all. From that point I started planning my own retirement assuming that I will get no healthcare or pension from the state. I am also assuming that the government will try to take that from me too.

We have moved to a new country where We live on self sufficient homestead, we grow our own food, hunt, and produce our own electricity. We have minimal income so pay as little tax as possible, but on the other hand we are off grid and take anything either.

Well I am 56 and havd often said to my mum that when it is my turn for a pension, they will have got rid of the freedom pass and the heating allowance and just put us all in a field and shoot us!

It would be very unfair to means test the pension.
I have never had a big wage....just an ordinary wage.
I've never had any benefits except child allowance.
I have saved hard and gone without new cars and holidays to save for my retirement. Others I know have spent every penny on holidays and cars. I have a friend who loved new cars. Had a new car every 18 months or so. Guess what ..he's now broke and can't understand why.
Why should he get a means tested benefit and not me.

The problem is that somebody who starts work at 16 and finishes work at 65 might live for another 30 to 40 years.

The sums are no longer adding up.

I agree, pensioners aren't the same as they were. My grandparents all died in their late sixties or early seventies. I don't know what the solution is - people are living longer, but not necessarily in good health. However, change is inevitable.

My dad gets his state pension and is a millionaire many times over. He still works and owns businesses worth millions. He has tried many times to return his winter fuel allowance and deregister - every year it keeps coming so now he just gives it to charity. Same with his state pension - he donates that every year to a charity close to his heart. People like him really wouldn't mind being means tested. If they get generous personal pensions and own businesses etc. it's pointless getting state money.

SnatchedPencil please get your facts right, it USED to be 60 for the national bus pass that's because women used to get their pensions on their 60th Birthday therefore men who were born on the same day were entitled to one as well I believe it was to do with age discrimination legislation, women no longer get their pensions at 60 and haven't for a couple of years my Sister got hers this year age 63 so a man born the same day as her will get his at 63 so its not policy to raise this age in the FUTURE and only screwing the YOUNG its happening right now, I will be 66 before I get my pension and bus pass and by then will have paid in for 51 years (inc 5 years of NI payments that wont count towards my pension due to the new rules) perhaps I should be complaining that I am being screwed - but I wont

BTW the tax payer who has to shoulder the burden includes tax paying pensioners like my husband.

Completely wrong and unfair to means cap pensions and bus passes etc. I've had things a hell of a lot easier than my parents (I freely admit that) and most people my age (20s) have. Why on earth should they suffer due to a few spoilt brats whining 'it's not fair'. My mam lost her mother when she was 17. She didn't get any qualifications from school, worked from the day she left school, while always putting every one else above herself and her hobbies (her father/me and my dad). She didn't work for 16 years due to depression but prior to that worked for 20 years and is now working in a care home. My dad lost his dad when he was younger than I am, no qualifications and has worked for the last 50 years. His bus pass allows him and mam to remain a one car family - her having 1 for work, and him using the bus. If he didn't have it he'd find it a lot harder. I think it ridiculous people to begrudge people who've worked longer than we've been alive, their benefits. Instead, lets go after the real problems - corporations and deprivation in areas which means high levels of unemployment claimants. We can go on about individual circumstances all day but we do have it easier than earlier generations. If nothing else - better education and aspirations, better safeguarding systems, a better standard of living, better access to information and certainly in my area a massive difference in the levels of poverty. What I would consider to be very poor now my parents viewed as normal (mum didn't have a modern washing machine instead of twin tubs until 1989!) and that clearly shows how much better our lives are! Sorry but I think it fucking disgusting to suggest that pensioners shouldn't get benefits despite most paying into the system for the past 50 years!

Do you not feel there's an advantage in that your mum was able to get a job with no qualifications at 16?

I know people with degrees who can't even get a job in Tesco.

Have come back to this thread to say that one answer is that bus passes should be free for everyone, whatever their age.

In London they are already free for kids under 16, and pensioners, and people with disabilities. Think how much better London would work (and how much cleaner the air, a real problem) if there were less cars on the road and more buses, which moved faster.

Other cities around the world have done it, and made it economically work. We could too. And no arguments then about who gets what. We all get it.

His bus pass allows him and mam to remain a one car family - her having 1 for work, and him using the bus. And my friend and her disabled son trail around on buses while her DH works two jobs and they have no car. And they don't have a washing machine.

Need should be the important thing, not whether you are likely to vote and probably Tory you are older.

And the 'paying into the system' thing. Your parents aren't wealthy so they have used anything they paid in already. Roads, school, health, all cost and only rich people are net contributors.

Yep - completely agree. It gives me the rage when there are able bodied pensioners traipsing around town and blocking up the bus with shopping trolleys, whilst a disabled man in a wheelchair (who has to PAY for his journey) has to sit and wait for another bus in the cold because the bus driver won't ask the pensioners to get off.

It's even worse if you have an invisible disability like my DS2 and you dare ask one of them to move.

Why on earth should the pensioners get off? There is plenty of room on most buses for the elderly and the disabled.

You are beginning to sound quite potty. Get a grip. Why've so much hatred? Weird.

And wheelchair users in these parts get free travel. Why not ask one of them to move for your son? You sound utterly irrational.

We can go on about individual circumstances all day but we do have it easier than earlier generations

That statement doesn't work. If individual circumstances are not the issue then we don't have it easier than the baby boomer generation. It's an economic fact and not measurable by washing machines (or mobile phones, or coffee).

Imagine leaving school with no qualifications now, do you think you'd end up with a job or car?

Of course the vast majority of people have it easier than earlier generations. We have indoor toilets and antibiotics.

The fact remains that the state pension system was not planned on the basis that people would work for 40-50 years and then retire for 30-40 years, requiring far more medical care than anyone had envisaged would be possible when they were working.

Oh I'm so relieved! Just two days ago I was worried that it's been around a month without a "Let's bash the baby-boomers" thread.

We have indoor toilets and antibiotics.

Well to be fair as did my baby boomer parents.

NoSunNoMoon

Because there were 8 pensioners on the bus and they all had shopping carts. None of them would move. I offered to let them have my seat to move to but they wouldn't.

Sorry, but whenever I see people getting snotty with doctors, bus drivers or people in shops, it's usually pensioners.

MrsMatt that's my experience too.

MrsMattBomer but that's not my experience I have never seen a pensioner being rude quite the opposite in fact, I often volunteer in my husbands charity shop last week I was there for 2 days we had a lot of turkey and tinsel holiday makers all pensioners and all very nice and not a snotty one in sight.

And cheers to the 5 pensioners who this week donated their winter fuel payments to the charity which will greatly benefit the homeless, people with addictions, people needing food, and other comfort, aid and support.

And double cheers to the little old boy who came in with two winter coats, a sleeping bag and blankets to be given direct to homeless people and not sold in the shop - mission accomplished

I meet some wonderful pensioners when I volunteer

So really i would have to disagree. I think a person who has paid NI for 30 years can reasonably expect that they get the pension the NI contributions are supposed to fund.

Except if you earn £26k a year for 50 years, your ni contributions don't even cover your pension, let alone healthcare costs, education etc for your life time.

I am a pensioner and I rarely use my bus pass
There's a reason for that. Out here in the sticks bus services are poor, so most people have cars. That is true for large areas of the country.