Fuming that they are talking of taking away pensioner bus passes and the triple lock

[jdoe8]

I'm still 40 years before I will get these, but I think we need to fight to keep these for future generations.

For many people they will have left school at 16 and worked until they were 65. Now after all those years of paying their taxes they aren't getting much back so the very least we need to do is allow them to travel and guarantee that their income will rise every year.

TBH trying to compatebthe life pensioners had and the one people have now is like comparing apples and oranges.
Some things were harder, some were easier.
That's not the way to decide if you should keep the triple lock or not.

Sadly that understanding doesn't stick, Marjorie

It is true, though. As I said, pages back, every generation sees every other generation as having more, being less hard working etc. It is a natural progression... as you grow up older your perspective changes.

Every generation has its own hardships, denying them, or trying to assert than any were worse than any other is ludicrous. The progress over generations just means we all have very different lived experiences. When I look at 18 year olds now I am stunned at how carefree their lives are compared to mine... just as my mother and grandmother would have looked at me.

I know that isn't right and, having judged, I tend to laugh at myself for having made such assumptions. I'm only 51... the differences are amazing, some are sickening, others ineffably sad.

Means testing is not just expensive to administer, it is also unfair. People who just spend, spend, spend get more that those who are responsible and save for their future.

If you came on here and said the same about younger people with less money claiming benefits you would be flamed to within an inch of your life. Very few people with means who have earned good salaries end up penniless in retirement. And if they do then the 'triple lock' is hardly going to keep them in the style they are accustomed to.

This is an interesting discussion and has genuinely changed my view on the free bus pass.

Until now I've always been mildly annoyed at how keen my DPs and their affluent friends are to take advantage of it, but thinking about it if the alternative is more elderly folk on the roads, then it makes a lot of sense.

Ourblanche - regarding the food- bank do people need to get a referral to it?
I'm just asking as the thing that surprises me about my parents, particularly my DM is that she seems to forget that she is - in real terms - fairly loaded. So complains about the price of stuff and denies things that would make her life easier, because I guess she's working on what things used to cost in the 1970s.

I do think things need to change, simply because the demography of our population has changed and we cannot afford to keep on doing things the way we always have. I sincerely doubt there will be anything like a state pension or the NHS by the time I retire and I'm 46.

I'm actually quite pleased the triple lock is being questioned as I suspect the government had resisted looking at pensioner benefits until now because older people vote in higher percentages so they went for "easier" targets.

It's not ideal that there is not enough money to go round. I'm not sure how we could create enough money to satisfy everyone's needs adequately. I'd like to see tax loopholes closed for higher rate earners/companies and self employed. I also think we cannot sustain a free NHS for all any more and we should look at that now, rather than burying our heads in the sand about it.

Yes they do Rookiemere, Trussell Trust ones at least.

As for the 'grow up' comment, it was in reference to the "How old are you?!" that popped up a few times which is hugely patronising I'm sure you'll agree.

but thinking about it if the alternative is more elderly folk on the roads, then it makes a lot of sense.

But if the rationale is quieter roads then why restrict it to pensioners? Perhaps under 25s should get them instead as statistically they cause the most accidents.

Basicbrown - interesting thought, but I suppose that a) young people need the experience to get better at driving and b) pensioners probably don't use the buses that much, whereas if the passes were given free to under 25s who are likely to be heavy users with daily commutes to college/work and less likely to afford cars and insurance, then bus companies would be unable to afford this.

" Perhaps under 25s should get them instead as statistically they cause the most accidents."

They do at the moment, but you need to bear in mind that we already have concessionary travel schemes for the elderly in place- and have done for quite some time.

I don't believe for a nanosecond that under-25s would continue to cause more accidents than over 70s if free bus travel was taken away and they all started driving again.

yes, all foodbanks officially need referrals. We aren't Trussell so have an acknowledged informal route, but that still precludes 'walk ins'. We are linked/part funded with a few other local, community ventures, we are quite different from Trussell, so my experience isn't always the norm

There is no doubt that the whole benefits system needs to be re-worked. Every part of it needs to be overhauled... and every group affected will be disaffected with that. And some politicians will make political capital based on their public stances.

And no one in government has said pensions won't be looked at/reformed - 2020 seems to be the date they will be, at which point it will be 10 years old, still much younger than many of the other current benefits that posters think are normal/everyday and necessary. I think people tend to forget that it is new and was never intended to be permanent, it was a response to the prevailing financial climate, intended to protect a vulnerable cohort - just like all other benefits!

I don't understand why the government doesn't make it mandatory for staff to join their employers pension schemes if they earned over a certain amount.
It would save a lot of problems in the future.

Perhaps under 25s should get them instead as statistically they cause the most accidents Do they? I thought that was a misinterpretation of the stats.

You are more likely to be involved in an accident as a teen but only 22% of all road traffic accidents involved 17 -24 year old drivers!

witsender I am indeed guilty. The Violet Elizabeth Bott picture and "Grow up" comment was indeed aimed at someone who posted like a 12 year old... "It's not fair" is really not a reasoned and adult response to anything... let alone a country's financial predicament!

in my books it would make even more sense to give free passes to u see 25yo.
They are more dangerous in the roads than elderly people.
If there was less 25 and under on the roads, it would be safer, safer surely than having less elderly people on the roads as
1- pensioners use their car less
And 2- pensioners are not as dangerous??

Besides under 25 have lower wages too so surely these are the people we should support???

You see the problem is that all the arguments you use for the elderly can be turned onto their heads and be used fur under 25....
But we don't
Because somehow pensioners are seen in a different light. Maybe a left over from generations passed where eldeely were seen as people to be respected just because of their age?

The triple lock on the state pension is completely unaffordable and is doing great damage to the public finances. Current pensioners are basically expecting their current lifestyles to be financed by the Government running an enormous deficit (it is forecast to be £60 billion this year) which is adding to the national debt at a completely unsustainable level.

Only 22%!!!
That's a hell of a lot for such a small number of drivers!!

Oldsu thanks for explaining PC and why it would not work .

Isn't it? And I think that's why the stats are often interpreted incorrectly.

And yes, give them all 10 year bus passes at 16... sod it, 25 year bus and rail passes, for free at birth. That would solve all sorts of problems.

user I read that as £98bn last year, huge but only £18bn more than predicted!!!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37871681

For the % split of all benefits... it is horrifying ALL of it! Not just the pensions part!

visual.ons.gov.uk/welfare-spending/

OurBlanche- I think the £98bn is the cost of the state pension whilst the budget deficit is forecast to be £60.5 billion. Its simply unsustainable as the National Debt is set to peak at around 85% of GDP.

Yes pensions are a huge amount but many people seem to ignore the fact that pensioners have paid into the system when they were working which supported the then pensioners and expected (not surprisingly) that they would draw a pension after many years of paying in.
The state pendion is TAXABLE so anyone who has a cushy final salary pension will pay perhaps 40% of the state pension back to the government.
The figure for pensions is large because there are a lot of pensioners not because they each get a huge amount - the state pension is £120 pw for older pensioners and as I understand it is one of the lowest in Europe.
As a single pensioner my income is made up of a less than full amount of state pension (only had 38 years of NI payments) and an annuity which was paid for by putting money I earned into a personal pension. This all gives me a stupendous annual income of £12k net out of which I have to pay everything. Believe me the winter fuel allowance does not even touch my utility bills - not complaining but I do find it insulting to assume we are all living it up on cruises and sitting in million pound houses and deserve to be 'hated' as scroungers.
Rant over!

Personally I think that pensioners should shoulder their share of the cuts. It is not fair that the young (by which I mean anyone under about 40) shoulder the brunt, which has been the case for so long.

The young are definitely not to blame for the mess we are in. Older people are not necessarily to blame individually but it has been the policy of successive governments that the elderly should profit at the expense of the young.

I think it is disgusting of the baby-boomer generation, the ultimate selfish generation, are spared any hardship. It is a disgrace that they get their generous pensions which the young can only dream of having. Bus passes at 60? No problem with that, but it is already policy to raise this age in future (screwing over the young) and of course the baby-boomers didn't have to worry about paying for free bus passes for their war hero parents, did they!

Yes, obviously it is bad if they take away bus passes. But "free" bus passes are not FREE - someone (the taxpayer) has to shoulder the burden. Pensioners have had it easy recently at the expense of their children. They've had it better than their own parents did, by leaving their own children to foot the bill.

Which is pretty vile, frankly.

I hate buses so that doesn't bother me. Have to look after yourself in this country going forward. No choice

You say that Blanche, yet haven't explained why the triple lock should be protected over others. So if it is purely to protect seasoned Tory voters, I stand by saying that that isn't fair. Until you, or someone can explain why it is allowed, then merely saying someone posts like a 12 yr old is as immature as telling a Brexit voter that they are a racist.

'Precisely. My mill worker, fought in WW2, GF deserved so much. He ruined his hearing in the tanks and lost so many friends. He did a hard and difficult job from very young. He is long dead and died in his 80s. Pensioners are no longer that generation.'

Mrs T P has it. She's described my grandad too.

Pensioners are not the same as they were.

OurBlanche

I meant lost generation in that for people after WW1 it was mostly spent rebuilding and starting up things again. That is how I see my children - they are going to be picking up the pieces of Brexit and 10 years of a Tory government, as well as the baby boomer generation who took on lots of credit and have left us in insane amounts of debt.