to think I'm making my baby's sleep worse?

[lilyb84]

Ds is nearly 11 months old and a terrible sleeper. He wakes hourly to two hourly or less, often cries when he wakes and won't re-settle, and won't go in his cot beyond the first hour or two (and I'm struggling even to get him to do that).

Every weekday evening (I work ft) he's super tired after being at the childminder and just cries and feeds from the moment we get home until he's asleep. I get back after picking him up at around quarter past 6 and literally sit feeding him while I try to have some dinner before bedtime, when I feed him to sleep. Even this isn't failsafe any more as sometimes he just won't drop off for up to two hours - I have to be in a completely dark room, lying down, otherwise no joy. I then go straight to bed myself as it's normally at least 9 if not 10 by that point. After his first wake - which could be after 20 minutes or 2 hours if I'm lucky - he normally comes into bed with us and we co-sleep, as otherwise I spend the whole night awake trying to resettle him in his cot.

DH generally does most of the bedtime routine - right now he's not working so he's also been collecting ds from the childminder so I don't have to rush home from work - but ds cries most of the time he's with him (normal behaviour at this age, I know). But since ds will only feed to sleep, DH can't put him to bed - and in the night ds literally only wants boob except when he doesn't and then I'm at a total loss as to how to resettle him - so he can't help at all with any of the night waking (although wakes almost as regularly as me thanks to ds crying!).

I've never been able to put ds in his cot awake - literally I have to wait for him to detach from me, completely and utterly fast asleep, even if he's been 'sleep-sucking' for an hour, before I attempt to transfer him, as otherwise he wakes immediately and cries. If I put him down awake he screams and gets hysterical - I can't do any gradual retreat or similar as he gets so worked up.

Have I created this situation somehow? Am I making it worse by co-sleeping? I know that bf babies do naturally wake more but I can't help but feel his sleep just gets worse and worse and nothing I do seems to help. DH would love to help more but literally there's nothing he can do - ds only wants me. At night when ds wakes he's immediately crying and searching for boob, and nothing else will do.

We do have the odd 'good' evening when he's a bit happier and won't scream through his bath, or will fall asleep quickly (hurray!) and then go in his cot for 2 hours before waking - and he's also a lovely, lovely little boy who just gets more and more fun all the time. I don't really mind the night waking as I'm really used to it now, but am starting to vaguely dread going home after work as I know what awaits me!

I know all babies are different so maybe I've just ended up with one who hates sleep (don't even get me started on naps), but I can't help but feel I'm doing something wrong. Surely at nearly a year old he should be sleeping a bit better than this? Or is this just the sign of a really strong attachment and I should be happy because he's going to be so well-adjusted and clearly will sleep amazingly when he's a toddler?

Just to throw something in for consideration, have you tried putting him to bed earlier? So no bath but just straight to bed. My 10 month old is so tired after nursery that he comes home, milk at 6 and bed at 6.30. He's not that smelly honest!

Oh, and moving her out of a cot helped. She hated being in a cot. Dramatic changes when in a propertoddler bed.

Yes I quite like that word too.
It comes from a baby sleep specialist:
www.google.co.uk/amp/news.nd.edu/news/researchers-propose-breastsleeping-as-a-new-word-and-concept/amp/?client=safari

Mine littlerally did sleep on my breast while feeding for a very long time so I like that term! My dc sleep better if put to bed early as well.

Sounds like a combination of inability to self settle (which means he wakes every sleep cycle or two) and overtiredness (I bet he doesn't nap enough).

I think teaching him to self settle could work wonders. CC or gradual retreat are your best options for that. CC at 11 months will be tough though, as a pp said they can cry for ages at that age.

Gradual retreat may be better - getting him to go to sleep without the boob will be the hard part. I'd suggest you start by your DH getting him to sleep using cuddles/rocking/patting/whatever works. DH is more likely to succeed with a non boob method than you as Ds will know your DH can't offer BF.

Good luck!

My DS 3 was a bit like yours and night weaning did the trick - but it took a while and was a bit older, 18 months ish.

I wore huge pjs buttoned up to the neck and cuddled, rocked, did everything I had to do to get him to sleep, except bfeed. He was very very cross for a night or two but he got over it and his sleep improved drastically after that.

I wasn't brave enough for cc, but this way I never left him on his own. I offered him milk or water so if he was genuinely thirsty he had a drink. I still bfed him morning and night until he was 2 1/2 so it wasn't the end of bfing for us, but he did have to learn that it wasn't on tap 24/7.

Perhaps you DH could help if he's now working ATM? Your DS will cry I'm sure but he wont be in his own, he won't be hungry or thirsty and he'll be with his parents who love him. He'll get there

It's so hard not to second guess everything you're doing when your kid doesn't sleep well, I've had two non sleepers and life must be very different for those that have babies who sleep! Ds is like yours, needed to be attached to a boob to sleep, in fact even after getting him to a point (after 3 months!) Of going to sleep with back rubbing in his toddler bed in his room, he still puts his hand down my top and keeps it there until he's asleep. He also wakes screaming every time and it can be hourly. After a certain point he's just in bed with us, because it's the only way we get any sleep.
That sounds depressing but at 20 months, the difference from 16-18 months is huge, tonight dh was able to put him to bed after a feed and approx 15 mins, usually its an hour. Not every night, and usually there's some tears, but we are getting thee. For those suggesting cio or cc, for an 11 month old I wouldn't personally, but also although people say it took 3 nights etc.....I tried with both of mine. Weeks, literally weeks of trying cio. Didn't work. Night weaned, worked to a point, with a lot of upset and us feeling awful at his sobbing as I wouldn't feed him, worked for a few weeks until he got Ill, teething, etc. It just doesn't work for them all. Mine were too stubborn, they could go for hours! Not to say I don't let them cry now and then, he sometimes needs it if he's messing about, to kind of get rid of the energy, but some kids will just grow out of it. My dd now is in bed by 7pm, quick story, asleep until I wake her. If she wakes early she just plays. She's 6, but I won't tell you how old she was when she started doing that, it's even more depressing...
You can do stuff to help I think, but really? It's time he needs, he's still little. And that is truly shit...(said by someone who got about 4 hrs sleep last night with a teething toddler laid on me and then a full days work..) but you'll get through it and things will change on their own one day as he gers older, you just need to decide if you can get by for now or if you have to make a change which will probably mean worse sleep in the short term and maybe better in the end, maybe not. Ignore me though, I could be talking shite, I haven't slept in nearly 7 years...

Get The No Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantly.
X

He's been awake all freaking night. Surely he needs some sleep?!

Sorry have not RTFT but it sounds like he is reliant on sucking to fall asleep so is using boob as a sleep prop. If he's eating well and getting enough milk in day you could look at night weaning from boob. We did this at 11 months too, DD stopped waking at all after 2nd night. My DH went in to comfort her each time and she soon got bored of waking to him!

Could also be the sleep regression lily

But honestly if I were you I'd be night weaning.

Sorry I haven't RTFT but the thing that struck me was you said he is super tired after being at the childminder all day.
Does he get naps and for the correct length of time during the day there?
If you are having trouble getting him to bed in the first place, could he be overtired from not enough sleep in the day?
My daughter was like this, it was like she just couldn't switch off despite desperately needing to sleep.
My experience was that once we got the daytime naps sorted, she went to bed much more easily and slept better throughout the night too.
You mentioned that your partner is not working, so if your son won't settle for naps with the childminder can he stay at home with your partner to see if he does better in how own bed for a bit?
Big unmumsnetty hugs, it sounds very hard.

I think he needs to nap more. My DS wouldn't sleep well if he was over tired. Also he may be having a sleep regression. What time does bedtime and bath start? It's all fixable but you may need to have a couple of noisy nights while it's sorted out. Pre warn the Neighbours, don't worry about noise, you'll all reap the benefit when it's sorted ,

Second the No Cry Sleep.Solution, there is an edition for toddlers. I've used the Pantley Pull Off technique from the book plus some other tips with my daughter. Also bedtime routine tips from the Gentle Sleep Book. There is no need to do CC if you don't want to. My daughter has naturally dropped from 3 feeds a night at 11 months to 1 feed a night at 16 months. I feed her to.sleep in her sleepyhead, do the pull off technique, and leave the room once she's asleep. I would get a consistent calming routine in place for naptime and bedtime with story, calming music, song, etc. Now her dad can put her to sleep using same routine without boob. See if cm can do a similar routine. You need to be out when dad tries it and there may be some crying but daf should comfort and pick up as needed. It sounds like he's not getting enough sleep in the day, 2 naps ideal.at this age. They generally need to go down about 3 hrs after morning wake up and 3-4 hours after waking up after a nap. If he's been awake more than 3 hours after you get home id start bedtime routine straight away. I would suggest dad takes over on at least some of the days at cm to strengthen their relationship and to help them work out ways to get to sleep together. My husband surprised me once I left them to.it.

Poor you. A crying baby is bad enough; a crying baby at night when you're both sleep deprived is the pits.

My first thought was what eyebrows said - it does sound like bedtime is quite late for that age, especially if he is overtired from nursery. Any of my 3 would be hysterical if they were awake past 7. Might be worth trying an earlier one, at least as an experiment.

Ps the cot bed is sidecarred to.our bed mattress so no need to transfer her, she falls asleep where she is. Still feeds to sleep a lot but less and less over time, she often delatches and turns over to go to.sleep.

Google gradual retreat OP. We used a sleep consultant and we did a very modified version with a similar DS (he is Ten now has ADHD - he still won't sleep). Basically never ever frown or do a 'poor baby' voice: always and 'everything's lovely' voice. Routine bath etc yada yada, then baby in bed, 'night night baby'? Leave room- then the important bit- stand outside room and return in literally 3 minutes- put baby in. Ed, 'night night' in bright voice, no eye contact or dialogue. Outside door with a three minute timer.

First night will be shit.
You'll be adding to the time minimally every night, and always the bright voice and never the 'poor baby' voice. It's shit I know - but you need to look after yourself. This is not controlled crying

girl

That is controlled crying. Timing and returning is cc.

You might be thinking of CIO.

Lily - honestly I've read and read and posted on the sleep board a LOT and put off starting gw and stopping night feeds as I was so worried about screaming. But we've had none, a bit of tired moany crying, but that's all. We took a step back with a cold and teething for a week, and I cuddled him to sleep and bf in the night fir a few nights, but once he was better, he went right back to being happy to be put in the cot awake.

I always did a slightly unhinged guffaw at the 'awake but drowsy' advice, never never worked for me.

Good luck, I hope my story has given you some hope. I have to say though, its only because I'm due no 2 in a few weeks that I took action!!

I also read and read no cry sleep solution. I put some of it into practice but honestly, all a bit vague. Firm up your bedtime routine, so everything is the same, then change where he falls asleep. One change, put him in the cot with some milk (this is apparently a no no but whatever works......) and be right there soothing fir as long as it takes. In less than a week there was a huge improvement.

Full moon always upset my non-sleeping baby. She's now 9yrs full of beans does loads of after school activities and still sleeps 9hrs a night some kids just function in less. She put us through hell for first 4-5yrs and CC just did not work. Second DD a dream by 12mths slept 11hrs solid. All kids are different do what you need to do to survive, tag team with DP and for your mental & physical health id wean off boob I did it t 11mths and it meant my DP and I could finally work as a team taking it in turns to "do the night" gd luck

Oh one thing that did actually help when I was going nuts was 'alright, I'm just going to put some clothes away in mummy and daddy's room, I'll be back soon.' she howled as I walked away but when she heard the rattly clothes rail noise she calmed down a bit.

Then ratcheted back up when she was bored of this nonsense, but I got a few minutes of quiet house, which was what I needed.

Thanks all, having a particularly bad week so it's good to have some suggestions.

Last night he woke/fed/whatever loads until 4 then decided it was time to get up and play. He finally went to sleep around 6 but even then was waking to feed every half an hour. Not impressed when we then got him up (late) to go to the cm.

DH has had him for the day or at least part of the day a few times and also struggles to get him to sleep in the day - sling is the only solution. I think we need a consistent approach and ds needs to learn how to settle in his cot. I'm reluctant to take him out of the cm as he's getting into a good routine there and it frees up DH for job hunting. If he doesn't get a new job he'll be a sahd but we'll really struggle on a single salary so I'd rather put more effort into him finding work right now! It's been less than a month since he was let go. I'm feeling a lot less stressed having him at home to help more but he definitely won't cope with this much broken sleep once he (hopefully) starts working again so we'll need to do something soon...

Thanks again! I'm going to make note of all the advice here and discuss with DH to see what seems the best option for us. Now I'm off to try to concentrate on some work

Try the Millpond Clinic's book, Teach Your Child To Sleep. There's nce straightforward plans in there for night weaning and getting rid of sleep props.

Tackle it now OP, because it gets harder once they're out of the cot. Then you have to find the little buggers to be able to take them back to bed!

Girl that is cc. Gw is when you put them down in the cot/bed and sit with them while they fall asleep but no boob/rocking etc, then gradually sit further and further away from them each night to let them learn to self settle.

Personally I found tackling night weaning much easier the older they got because they were more ready for it. Tackling falling asleep without bf worked well around the ops stage but they were no where near ready for proper sleep training at that stage and needed alot of slow steps inbetween to help them get there when they were ready.