to think I'm making my baby's sleep worse?

[lilyb84]

Ds is nearly 11 months old and a terrible sleeper. He wakes hourly to two hourly or less, often cries when he wakes and won't re-settle, and won't go in his cot beyond the first hour or two (and I'm struggling even to get him to do that).

Every weekday evening (I work ft) he's super tired after being at the childminder and just cries and feeds from the moment we get home until he's asleep. I get back after picking him up at around quarter past 6 and literally sit feeding him while I try to have some dinner before bedtime, when I feed him to sleep. Even this isn't failsafe any more as sometimes he just won't drop off for up to two hours - I have to be in a completely dark room, lying down, otherwise no joy. I then go straight to bed myself as it's normally at least 9 if not 10 by that point. After his first wake - which could be after 20 minutes or 2 hours if I'm lucky - he normally comes into bed with us and we co-sleep, as otherwise I spend the whole night awake trying to resettle him in his cot.

DH generally does most of the bedtime routine - right now he's not working so he's also been collecting ds from the childminder so I don't have to rush home from work - but ds cries most of the time he's with him (normal behaviour at this age, I know). But since ds will only feed to sleep, DH can't put him to bed - and in the night ds literally only wants boob except when he doesn't and then I'm at a total loss as to how to resettle him - so he can't help at all with any of the night waking (although wakes almost as regularly as me thanks to ds crying!).

I've never been able to put ds in his cot awake - literally I have to wait for him to detach from me, completely and utterly fast asleep, even if he's been 'sleep-sucking' for an hour, before I attempt to transfer him, as otherwise he wakes immediately and cries. If I put him down awake he screams and gets hysterical - I can't do any gradual retreat or similar as he gets so worked up.

Have I created this situation somehow? Am I making it worse by co-sleeping? I know that bf babies do naturally wake more but I can't help but feel his sleep just gets worse and worse and nothing I do seems to help. DH would love to help more but literally there's nothing he can do - ds only wants me. At night when ds wakes he's immediately crying and searching for boob, and nothing else will do.

We do have the odd 'good' evening when he's a bit happier and won't scream through his bath, or will fall asleep quickly (hurray!) and then go in his cot for 2 hours before waking - and he's also a lovely, lovely little boy who just gets more and more fun all the time. I don't really mind the night waking as I'm really used to it now, but am starting to vaguely dread going home after work as I know what awaits me!

I know all babies are different so maybe I've just ended up with one who hates sleep (don't even get me started on naps), but I can't help but feel I'm doing something wrong. Surely at nearly a year old he should be sleeping a bit better than this? Or is this just the sign of a really strong attachment and I should be happy because he's going to be so well-adjusted and clearly will sleep amazingly when he's a toddler?

My dc had bottles from 2 days old- and still refused them from 3 mths onwards. And cups and water and formula and cows milk plus alternatives all refused until 18th ish. So that's no garentee either. Don't be so hard on yourself

I always fed when dd woke in the night. I have a glass of water by my bed for when I wake up thirsty. I just fed the resettled her.

Both my babies bottle refused after about 6 weeks despite having the odd expressed bottle each day from about 3 weeks. So don't blame yourself!
The trouble with night feeds is you're teaching his tummy to need food at night, so he wakes. Try stretching the feeds if you don't want to do cc, so nothing for 3 hours for a couple of days, then nothing for 4 etc. Personally, if he's so distressed if you leave him I'd just go cc as the fastest fix. You can't live like this. He deserves a rested mum.

Sounds just like my DS. We tried literally everything without joy. He would only go to sleep on boob, or being rocked to sleep by my husband, woke all the time and just wanted boob. I once went away for the night and he woke up every twenty minutes for six hours then woke up for good. He was just a high needs baby. He was sensitive to almost everything. He has slowly grown out of most of it (although he's still highly strung) and at 4 sleeps well (although I still have to sit with him until he's asleep).

Must be exhausting as you're also working. It will get better!

Could your mum come and help you do cc as she is hv? Only took two nights with my children and it didn't involve hysterical crying just going in and out 30+ times first night and 3 times 2nd night and being consistent. Cup of milk in lounge and then taken to cot and kiss good night and out the room. Same thing every night however tired you are

Feeding for comfort is a valid and important reason to feed.

My son was just like - it is completely normal. Some children are just more sensitive and need mum/bf/cuddles etc to sleep.

We tried all sort to get DS to sleep (not CIO and not CC). Not to turn this into a bum fight but please do read about impact of CC before considering.

In the end once teething and the spate of nursery illnesses passed he was ready to sleep. I wish I hadn't spent so long trying to get him
To sleep in other ways. Every tooth, every cold, every night away it all regressed.

When he was 2 he showed signs of being ready to not feed to sleep. We read a book to prepare (story book) and talked about it. He was sleeping through in 3 nights, no tears.

Read the milk meg or Kellymom for advice.

It's tough but it isn't forever and you will get there.

please do read about impact of CC before considering.

No reliable studies, whatsoever showing that cc is harmful in the context of a loving family.

Otoh there are hundreds of reliable studies showing the very real harmful effects of long term sleep deprivation.

It's up to the op to do as she wishes, 100%. As I said upthread, we all have our breaking points.

And yes it is normal for BF babies to want to feed all night long but doesn't mean you have to accept it if it isn't working for you.

Of course feeding to sleep is a valid and important reason but op is saying she wants to change things as she understandably has found herself in a ridiculous situation which is not good for her or baby who needs good long deep sleep for growth and development. If she wanted to carry on like this til her baby was 2 I don't think she would have posted for advice

Sometimes people post for advice because they want to hear that what they are experiencing is normal and they want to know they haven't created the problem.

If you have a high needs baby the likelihood is that you will have to do CC more than once. If anything like my DS they will scream, not cry.

www.bellybelly.com.au/baby-sleep/controlled-crying/

Everyone has to make choices which are right for their baby but I do think we have unrealistic expectations about baby sleep and if we look at how babies slept in the past or in other cultures then co-sleeping and frequent waking are normal.

I know it is tough, I had 2 yrs of broken sleep. Yes I would have liked more sleep but I had to respond to my son in the way which was best for him. Part of being a parent is making sacrifices and for me sleep was one of them.

I completely accept that everyone has the right to make a different choice.

With all our parenting decisions it's good to be fully informed before taking actions.

Thanks all for your comments. Feeding ds to sleep right now and typing one handed so sorry in advance for any typos!

Interesting to hear others' experiences so thank you.

Ds is in with us as we have a 1 bed flat but will have to move in may so hoping to get a 2 bed and therefore have a separate room which will help with some of this I think.

Mum doesn't live nearby sadly so can't help with cc if we went down that route.

I don't think I'm at breaking point - I can handle the lack of sleep and while the getting him to sleep bit is frustrating I know it won't be forever. However I am starting to wish for a little more time in the evenings and got DH to be able to be more involved as it's impacting on our relationship. We deal with it and are as understanding with each other as possible but it would be nice to know we had even just an hour each evening together and our bed to ourselves!

I know it's not forever as I say but I do also worry ds is awake too much and therefore overtired. He's so happy when he's slept well but that's so infrequent and obviously I want to see him happy!

I'm going to talk to DH about the best approach but we won't do anything until the new year. I doubt we'll go for full on cc but I think gradual retreat, if we can (wo)man up enough to bear the crying while we're in the room, might be an option.

I'm glad to know I'm possibly not the cause of this as others have bad sleepers too and seemingly at random and despite all efforts! Thanks so much for all your suggestions.and advice.

It's so hard when they won't sleep but it doesn't sound like you've made his sleep worse. It sounds like you've gone with your instincts and responded to his needs.

His sleep sounds 'normal' especially if you are in work, he's probably catching up on getting comfort from you and catching up on some calories from milk.
It won't be forever, he will sleep in his own bed when he's ready.

It's difficult when you feel pressure to make them sleep better or that you should change something as it's not what he 'should' be doing. I would carry on feeding him when he wakes, at least it's a guaranteed way to get him back to sleep!

Obviously if you want to sleep train/night wean then look into that but do it because that's what feels right for your DS not because you feel pressure that his sleeps not normal.

I know it sounds like a step backwards but would you consider putting him in your bed from the start of the night? You could feed him to sleep in bed then make it safe/monitor on and have some time with your DH. He may feel more secure in your bed and go to sleep quicker/stay asleep longer.

Honestly yes I think you are . I would take a week to two off work and try and sort it out . You don't need to leave him crying but need to be strict And put him to bed awake with some music and let him cry just for a bit , going in and out and reassuring him. This will go on forever otherwise ! .. make sure the childminder doesn't allow him too much sleep in the day also !!

Op I think you might have caused and effect muddled- when he's happy because he's had a good sleep it's more likely that he managed to have a good sleep because he was in a more settled space (no teething, no developmental leaps, no developemental milestones about to be achieved, no viruses in his system etc) and when he is grumpy after a poor nights sleep it's like the he slept poorly because of the above factors (and worse separation anxiey, over stimulated day) iyswim

I allways think the same about studies showing that babies need sleep for development- children who inherit genetic conditions like adhd/asd and other disabilities are known to have different (poorer) patterns of sleep because their disabilities cause them to have dysfunctional sleep patterns, so cause and effect are the other way around.

Not that your child has any problems just because he isn't the best sleeper. Mine do (asd/adhd) but while they don't sleep well even now, they sleep well for children who have these disabilities and I'm sure part of that is down to a gradual learning to sleep approach we put in place. Unlike myself, who as an adult with adhd I still can't sleep alone, through a whole night, or fall asleep without the TV on- and I was raised with a v strict cc approach to sleep.

It's not a bad thing to need a break for you, and to put boundaries in place to get that. Buy that doesn't have to mean cc/cio or total night time bf, there's a range inbetween. And cc/cio arn't bad options either if you feel that's the right fit for your child.

That's an interesting point indrid. I've also heard sleep is genetic - I've always struggled to get to sleep and don't need a huge amount so it's not wildly beyond reason to think ds could just take after me. And not his dad who would happily sleep 12 hours a night

imjessie I think chance would be a fine thing for our childminder getting him to sleep 'too much' in the day...! If we do try some sleep training I may well use a bit of annual leave so I'm not full time for that period.

What does he do for naps at the CM?

Op - I'm sorry I haven't rtft........ But from.your initial.post he sounds very similar to ds who is now 16 months old. At around 9 months I went back to work. He wouldn't rake a bottle bit would drink water (not any sort of milk!) from a sippy. I started mum/Mil offering him.a bit of cows milk as a drink.on my work days. Then at 12 months started offering warm cows milk in a nuby grip n sip at bedtime. Bf to sleep had become unreliable, and I'd had the same issue with not being able to put down awake, or even just asleep.

He would bf a bit, then have a bit of milk, then bf a bit. After a few nights he took more milk, less bf. I had a goid bedtime routine sorted, bath, two stories, bf/milk, mobile on. Once he was happily glugging the milk)(only took about a week for him to bf a bit then just have the milk) I put him.in his cot awake and started gradual withdrawal.

The first week I think.i stood over the cot singing, patting, stroking etc for max 75 minutes. This was to prevent the crying. Then started laying on the floor singing. Then sitting nearby etc. I did it very very slowly. Still doing it really four months later! But, miraculously, he got to the stage where I put him in the cot with his milk (no bf) and he lays drinking and watching his mobile. Takes 15-25 minutes to fall asleep. I sit on the landing, or in the room if it's a workday as he'll be less happy with me on the landing if he's not seen me all day. He rarely gets up or complains.

The time asleep has gone from same as yours (max 2 hours) to mostly sleeping from 6.30-7pm to 3am!!! One night he slept til 5am and that was when I stopped bf overnight about a month ago.

Now, he often sleeps til 4/5am sometimes later, sometimes bit earlier. When he wakes, he comes into bed and I sit cuddling with mobile on and he falls back to sleep. I bf at wake up (5/6am)

Honestly, ds was a baby that would not be put down and I can't believe how far we've cone in a few months.

Is he over stimulated and exhausted? If DH is at home can you reduce the hours he is at he childminder? So he can have him? How does she cope with him? Does he nap with her? I'm asking because my eldest would be like this when over stimulated.

OP, I have wondered about genetics and sleep too. I am terrible at getting myself to sleep and I don't seem to need that much sleep. My dad is the same, and DD seems to be going that way too!

Mini the childminders work some kind of weird magic where they put him in a cot and he sleeps, sometimes just a short while but sometimes up to 2 hours!! I've never managed to do this at home. When he's with me he'll only sleep in his sling and then only for half an hour. Or he wants to feed to sleep.

notalotta that's very interesting! Thanks, maybe we'll try something similar when he reaches a year.

Helpme I think it's a mixture of overtired and over stimulated. Hoping DH will find more work again soon so don't want to change the childcare hours in case we can't change back once he has a job again. If he can't find work I guess he'll need to be a sahd which will change things yet again!

The childminder does usually get him to nap as I mentioned above but it's only one nap per day and I wonder if he still needs two at his age. But then he never sleeps that much with me even spread over two naps so I don't think it's having too much effect!

If you want to give a bottle at night, I suggest trying every few months as he might suddenly accept it (also try enlarging the hole to increase the milk flow). Ideally it would be your DH giving the bottle and you out of the room).
I night weaned DS at 22 months. He shouted and cried but only a few times during the first 2 nights and then learnt to fall back asleep without the boob. He is still co-sleeping at 3 and little DD breastsleeping at 11 months. Although I got very lucky with DD as she loves her sleep so mostly sleeps through the night (that wasn't the case for DS and I didn't do anything different so I think it's just a matter of them being individuals).

'Breastsleeping' is a lovely way of describing it

I'd not get the childminder to get him to sleep less, if he's overtired he'll be even harder to settle

Have you tried white noise (or natural noises like rain or waves sound)? That works for mine when they are overtired.
DD is just transitioning to 1 nap a day at 11 months.

Up to 20 months I would literally have to stay in room until youngest fell asleep it was a creep creep out of the room absolute nightmare then would wake in night and we'd co-sleep. At 20 months I was literally like fuck this I can't do this anymore. I knew she was safe in her bag in the cot I had a video monitor and I let her cry for 25 mins I know awful and that was it she went to sleep and since she'lol generally sleep through not always but generally

This describes my dd perfectly. Its not anything you're doing. The only rhing that finally worked for us was at about 16 months my dh did all wake ups. I nursed to sleep but he did all wake ups. By the second night she slept through 13 hours.

It was hard on dh having to put up with crying for literally hours but it sorted it.