to move back to London?

[Almondmilk]

I know that AIBU advisors are very opinionated, I take a risk here!
Here is the case: my partner and I,, both Europeans met in London. We lived there. We moved to Scandinavia as he has a property there and I wanted to give it a try so he wouldn't sell it without having lived there together. It's been two years that we are there and I can't get used to the lifestyle there. It's good for plenty of reasons but I also miss a lot of things: friends, arts, automn, etc! I have learned the basics of language but I can't picture myself speaking a third language, I am just tired of it. I miss my mothertongue as well as I am fine speaking in english. My partner isn't fond of the culture of his homeland and he doesn't have friends here (he doesn"t bond with Scandinavians!). The most important things we have here are: a good small flat, clean environment, small costs. But I feel like we will always miss having friends and unexpected situations like we had in London. Work opportunities here are none so we have created self-employed situations - well at least it works for me, not for him yet-. We are bored at night (especially me) and weekends and it affects our relationship.

I feel VERY guilty question my geographical situation. So...Aibu to want to move away, or back to London/UK? Please be frank but kind as I already struggle enough, it's 6am and I haven't slept a wink.

I’d move back asap to make to be settled before brexit happens…We lived 8 years in the UK.

That may or may not help you. If you acquired permanent residency during those 8 years (e.g. you have had 5 years where you were either working, self-employed, self-sufficient or a student - and in the latter 2 cases had comprehensive sickness insurance) the only way you could lose this PR status would be if you are out of the country for 2 or more consecutive years. It sounds as if you may have been away too long already now, in which case your 8 years do not count for anything now and your clock would start ticking again from zero. Do not take Brexit lightly. I am more than sick of hearing from people that it won't affect Europeans who are not on benefits, as that is pertinently NOT the case. It already does. You cannot get PR if you are a home maker for example, with a British husband/partner who provides for the family, even if you have been here 20 years, unless you had the foresight to arrange comprehensive sickness insurance for at least 5 years during that period. Something very few people did.

Bread That's exactly how I felt when I lived in London. Without kids it was all theatre trips, nightclubs and restaurants every weekend. With kids, I think we took them to the West End theatre probably once or twice in their lives. We went to the Natural History museum once in the 8 years since my kids were born. Ive been about 4 times in the 40 years I've lived in London, and I love a museum! The smaller museums we went to once a year if that. Our lives in London were spent quite locally, doing things we could do anywhere. Now we've moved to another city, we go swimming every week or two ( we could never get into a pool at the weekend in London) we go into the city by bus most weekends, as residents we can get free entry into the museums in the school holidays, we go to the art house cinema on the cheap kids morning, it takes 20 minutes on one bus instead of upwards of an hour on the train and tube or bus, we're booked into three plays that are touring from the West End. I love London and I love City life, but Its only now I've moved to a smaller city that I feel I have that City life back.

raisedbyguineapigs: I have to ask, where do you live now? We are very much contemplating moving out again before DD starts in school. Thinking of perhaps doing it next year, putting flat on market in early spring aiming to move in summer hols. Only problem is we really don't know where to move to! Due to my job being really great for working at home etc we could move pretty far out - though ideally less than 2 hrs by train to Ldn so I can get in about once a week. I

Norwich! It's 1.5 hours by train I to Liverpool Street. I love it

I lived it Norwich when I was a teenager it's changed alot now. The shops are pretty ace. Not bad to Liverpool Street. But then it would Cost a bomb in travel

Interesting, I realise I never think east as family all live west, towards wales. Anyway, will cease thread hijack now

Yes it does cost a lot in travel, but 2 hours to London from anywhere is expensive. I occasionally worked in London when we first moved, and it was about £40 advanced return outside rushour which isn't too bad if it's once a week. My DH grew up here and says it's unrecognisable from when he was a teenager.

Bristol?

Sorry OP for hijack

The chances of EU citizens who are already here pre article 50's trigger being asked to leave is virtually nil. The only reason they haven't said this yet is because they need to preserve the rights of British people living in the EU and can't guarantee without getting reassurance they can stay too.

But the chances of deportations or people being kicked out is almost zero. For are start there are so many it's virtually impossible. Just registering them all would take an estimated 150 years. It's just not going to happen.

Just to add my thoughts - my husband and I aren't from London originally but have lived here over 10 years now. Never in a million years did I imagine I'd have a family in London but here we are, 2 kids later, living in zone 4 and things going OK so far. We go to the South Ken museums about 4/5 times a year, we go to the South Bank, to the British Library, but because of where we live we have all sorts of greenery on the doorstep too. I was brought up in the country and hated it - found it so boring - so no plans to move out yet! Kids are 6 and 4. But I appreciate we were lucky to be able to buy when we did.

Almond - you do sound like you are inclined to be childfree btw. Just had to say that as it would obviously be a factor in any decision you make.

London is GREAT, especially if you have children!

My DH and I both grew up on farms and assumed we'd move out when we had children but actually it's such a brilliant place for children, we're still here and with no plans to leave.

Outsiders think that living in London means going to Leicester Square or Covent Garden every day. Actually, it means (hopefully) living in a nice area outside the centre, having neighbours who are friends, walking or cycling everywhere, being able to do things (e.g. yesterday I took my son to hospital) quickly with no fuss, and enjoying all the city has to offer, including fabulous state schools.

Come back OP!

Snap hollygoflightly - ditto everything you said.

Also, if you want to work after having children, I can't think of a better place to do it. I've gone back full-time and finding nice childcare has not been an issue - something friends of mine in the sticks have trouble with.

London is great for kids. Especially to be a parent of small ones. So much to do and so more likely to meet liked minded parents. Less likely to feel isolated. Schools are great - from Tyler everyone's micro-concerns fool you - London state schools consistently outscore the rest of the country on many criteria. For me the cultural value is astonishing. Free school trips (just recently this) to perform at The Globe, royal institution, science museum, natural history museum, museum of London, Tate. ....

Girlswhowearglasses I agree with you in many ways, but find there are lots of things to do with kids but the logistics of doing them (mainly getting small unwilling toddler out of house rather than anything to do with public transport) mean I don't do many of them. So I feel like I'm paying a lot to live somewhere where there is lots of stuff I'd like to do but don't do that much, hence my feeling at the mo is it's not worth the crazy inflated price of living here.

Maybe you'll feel different when they're a little older. Mine are now 8,8, 10. We 'do' the science museum, Natural history Museum, Tate, British museum at Lear annually but usually we do one room or gallery as we know we'll be back and don't feel the need to do a whole exhausting day at once. Once we went to the British museum specifically to see a samurai warrior suit, another time to see the Easter Island head, another time for Sutton Hoo, another time for 'Pete the bog man' and quite a few times for Egypt - not least because my grim DCs like to see the unwrapped mummy . You'd never get that depth from one visit.

@Ameilius did I reply to you? There are people who speak my mothertongue where I live, and I am more than happy to speak english with any expat. We just happen to be very different. I'm always seeking for a new challenge (work wise, creative field) and eager to see new things. I find that people here stay in their comfort zone and enjoy the things that are given -which is very healthy but also doesn't help with having interesting conversations-. Everyone does the exact same, buy the same stuff, have the same country house, same same...Good taste usually but just the same.

@Breadwidow thanks for sharing your thoughts. It's probably naive of me to imagine dragging babies, kids to a contemporary art gallery...For me it's weird to accept to live in a city that doesn't provide culture up to my standards. It does provide a lot of other things: more time, clean environment. This is why I moved there. I just don't want to wake up in a few years and realise that I am super bored while my kid has a life. Or maybe that's just normal!

@raisedbyguineapigs Thanks for your insight! It's probably better if in the future I leave kids with my partner, get on a plane and go to the museum on my own!

Lorelei76 I'm just very aware of the consequences...that's why I am so careful. Child-free is just rad...but I don't think I will regret it!

@juneau yes it's probably safer to wait and see what happens in a few months.

Importantly, the Hague Convention is also a reason why I'd rather have a kid in a neutral place (not my homeland, not his) in case of splitting - yes it's good to keep in mind, let's not be naive, life isn't a fairytale.

So well, what do you guys think about staying where I am and flying abroad to see friends and arts? When having kids, do you think this isn't manageable either? I could leave them with their dad and go have fun in London

I suppose you could do stay where they are until they are 8 or 9, then move to London. I don't know whether you would do that once the children are actual realities though . It would depend on how your partner is with the children, and how prepared he would be to be left for weekends while you spent your not high income flying to London and back to see your mates, especially if he's prone to depression! I think your main problems would be solved by not having children! It's not compulsory, and its not that radical not to do it-40% of graduate women in the UK will never have children. Unless you are desperate to have children and not having them would in itself make you miserable, maybe hold off on the babies for a while, until you are prepared for the massive life change they bring!

I don't travel much so I don't know a lot about prices
When I saw Cumberbatch as Hamlet I met two friends who had flown over from Sweden for one night just to see that, they were sleeping in the airport to wait for the early flight. Also met a couple from Denmark when I saw an amazing production of Jewels at the Royal Ballet who were doing the same. The tickets cost more than the flights, they said.

I think you should move back. If it doesn't work out, (or you are somehow forced to leave by the triggering of Article 50, heaven forbid this happens to anyone quite frankly) then you can always leave again!

Give it a go. You know what you're letting yourself in for, so why not give it a try?

Best of luck. Horrible not to feel at home in the place you're living.

@raisedbyguineapigs a trip to London doesn't have to be expensive. Ryan Air+Stay with friends is probably cheaper than take kids to the cinema.
About the 40% graduate without kids, I can totally picture myself be part of them. But I also think that for my personal balance and the human experience, I should have a kid...Hard to explain, that's my feeling.
For work I need to go abroad sometimes. Here everything is very expensive.

@Lorelei76 Your friends are doing the right thing! Are you without kids then? Or it's actually possible to do. I feel like some people are totally alienated by theirs kids and they don't allow themselves to go out or take a short trip.
I know that my DP would encourage me to do what I need to do.

@kate1967 Not that easy...selling buying, selling and buying again=so much time and stress. It has to be the right decision. I might wait for Art 50 button to be pressed though!