to move back to London?

[Almondmilk]

I know that AIBU advisors are very opinionated, I take a risk here!
Here is the case: my partner and I,, both Europeans met in London. We lived there. We moved to Scandinavia as he has a property there and I wanted to give it a try so he wouldn't sell it without having lived there together. It's been two years that we are there and I can't get used to the lifestyle there. It's good for plenty of reasons but I also miss a lot of things: friends, arts, automn, etc! I have learned the basics of language but I can't picture myself speaking a third language, I am just tired of it. I miss my mothertongue as well as I am fine speaking in english. My partner isn't fond of the culture of his homeland and he doesn't have friends here (he doesn"t bond with Scandinavians!). The most important things we have here are: a good small flat, clean environment, small costs. But I feel like we will always miss having friends and unexpected situations like we had in London. Work opportunities here are none so we have created self-employed situations - well at least it works for me, not for him yet-. We are bored at night (especially me) and weekends and it affects our relationship.

I feel VERY guilty question my geographical situation. So...Aibu to want to move away, or back to London/UK? Please be frank but kind as I already struggle enough, it's 6am and I haven't slept a wink.

That advantage of london to me, is the high population density.

It can support a huge number of 'things' in a small geographical area. So you can get the bus or walk to pretty much everything you can possibly think of.

Commute on two buses? Have you noticed how far they move in the rush hour?

(That was to the PP who mentioned a £3 commute).

OP lifelong Londoner here

I'd also say come back and visit - at an "ordinary" time and keep in mind things like rush hour travel have become even worse in the last 2 years.

General overcrowding is much worse, if you ever ran a car here, I would hire one and see how you feel about that because a lot of places are now totally car unfriendly.

it still has lovely things but whether or not you feel they are outweighed by the negatives is something I think is vital to check and with the pace of overcrowding now going into snowball mode, even if your last visit 6 months ago, it's worth a re-check and seeing what you'd want in terms of bringing up kids.

I live on the very edge/outskirts, in the last two years the population has exploded, because of course it's cheaper than living in Zone 4 etc. I haven't studied it but I do wonder if 3/4 has had less growth because people simply can't afford it? I couldn't afford my own flat now but I bought 12 years ago.

the buses in London are fine, and now it is two journeys within an hour for the price of one.
Honestly user, London is great in so many ways. the price of transport is a bargain compared to the sticks.

My commute is 2 buses
Takes under an hour, including going through the west end
Bus lanes nearly all the way, so really quite quick...
I cycle in the summer. Takes about the same time but I have to leave earlier so I can get changed and have a shower at the other end

European citizens with jobs are not going to get deported are they? this kind of scaremongering is just silly.

The point is that we don't know what is going to happen and what the status of Europeans will be in the UK following Brexit. Europeans who have been resident in the UK for years may well be allowed to stay, but since the OP and her European DH haven't even moved here yet it's at least possible that following Brexit they won't have the automatic right to live here without securing permanent residency or citizenship. This is something they should factor into their decision about whether to move back here. What if in two years' time, having gone through the hassle of moving country they discover that they can't stay here?

sparechange you're right. I do miss the multiculturalism of London living out here. It's not completely homogenous but definitely more so than London. They might consider somewhere like Cambridge or any other university town that's commutable if they can't afford London. I think this all depends massively on OP and her DP's preferences.

London is horrible, I'm desperate to get out but stuck for various reasons. If I were you I'd look seriously at some other cities - Manchester, Bath, Edinburgh, Cambridge, Cardiff is wonderful - they have all that good things about London without the absurd house prices. And they're closer to get out to the countryside if you like that sort of thing.

I already know what I like about London - am a born and bred Londoner alive for the past half century, so I also have a lot of material for comparison. I love buses outside the rush hour. Unfortunately working Londoners have to use public transport IN the rush hour which does sort of diminish the love.

My only advice was for OP to have a holiday here to refresh her impressions before committing to any change, and other PPs have agreed. No dramas.

My commute is in the rush hour
I leave my house (zone 2 SW London) and am at my desk in the West End under an hour later)
10 mins longer than the tube costs, but a lot cheaper than having a full travel card, as per my original point

I've also done the commute to work by bus from our old place in Dulwich/Forest Hill when the trains weren't working and it wasn't too bad, but it was before the days of having the bus-hopper fare so it didn't work out cheaper than doing the journey by Overground and tube

Buses are great. All the main commuter routes have bus lanes most of the way, so they don't get stuck in traffic

I think it depends on the area in London. I lived in place A moved 10 ride to place b and I feel like I'm in a ghetto. Gangs about always a stabbing going on. Someone being killed.

But then if someone suggested to me your move out i would say no because it feels like home all my memorys are here. I feel an emotional attachment. My kids love it here.

Op has been gone 2 years I should think not much has changed. Over that time. If your not happy op come back. Maybe you could consider a little out of london

I've lived in London for over 25 years and it is getting a lot worse in terms of overcrowding and pollution etc. Infrastructure just hasn't kept pace with the population growth. Added to the fact that housing near the centre is getting so expensive, and more people commuting further, the trains and buses are getting horribly overcrowded at rush hour - try standing on the platform to get the northern line, like a sardine, waiting for 3 trains to go by before you can squeeze onto one- not a great way to start your day and it's only getting worse. Also, buses are so much slower now with all the traffic it's frequently quicker to walk. And the air pollution is awful - I was given a map of worst roads when pregnant by the hospital which showed my whole commute was basically a high risk to health. I really want to move out so my kids don't have to be here (lots of the new schools are near main roads, as space to build them is scarce so they tend to be in more industrial areas without playing fields etc).

Also, with kids, the city is completely different - try bringing a buggy on the tube - most of the network was built decades ago and has lots of steps and few lifts! And as pp said, there may be many museums free but if you can't afford to live near them, and can't face the stress of bringing small children / babies on public transport, you're going to have to pay for taxis so everything ends up far more expensive!

I don't see why he shouldn't take turns at night at least on the weekend once you can pump some milk. I'd much rather get a nights sleep and do more of the housework.

It also depends a lot on what DH does for a living. When we had our DS, my DH was doing a job that was more like a hobby, no stress, relaxed hours, relaxing 15 minute walk to work so I had no qualms (and nor did he) about him helping out loads at home. Now his job is more stressful, longer hours, with a commute too so there's no way I'd expect him to come home and tidy up the kitchen. Not all full time work is equal.

Hello all, thanks for your all kind messages and for your support!

My partner could afford to buy a 1-2bedroom flat in London zone 3. We also went to Brighton&Hove to visit it, I raised big hopes. We stayed around 8hours and we didn’t find it great. I believe that we didn’t see the best residential parts…We went to Sutton, Bromley, etc…

We are creative so we both are used to live cheap and would raise kids that way. There are plenty of things one can do for free, especially in London. Even cheap restaurants are everywhere. Here in Scandinavia, restaurants are hell expensive, forget about eating out when you are self-employed!
I said that I feel guilty because I was the one who initiated the move and now I want to leave to return to a place I have left.
My partner is open to find a place near London if we can find a gem: countryside-ish house super well connected to London for us car-free people. I said I miss my mother tongue, I had plenty of friends speaking my mother tongue in London and I am more than happy to speak English. I just can’t commit to this new language, I have a proper burn out with languages, I don’t see the point to struggle and speak like a 3years old for 10 years with people who barely want to discuss anyway!

@juneau are you sure about that point: 'so anyone who was ordinarily resident before June 23, 2016 may get to stay’ I’d move back asap to make to be settled before brexit happens…We lived 8 years in the UK.

To me, the life would be different if we own a property near London.

I mention that my partner isn’t fully happy here but he believes that we should accept the situation and work on it. Even if he is not a pro-scandinavia…

I’d be happy to live outside/near London, go there for work twice a week and see some arts and colourful people and friends even once a month…It will also be more than zéro friends and boring Scandinavia...Arts are also my playground and I can find work this way, so I am constantly looking for opportunities.

Also sleep is just a basic necessity regardless of what else you're doing. Without it you just can't function. It's one thing if it's a few feeds in the night but some babies just wake constantly and you never get any deep sleep at all.

oops wrong thread!

Move! Definitely move.

@therealpippi are you Swedish? ;)

If you want kids then stay in Scandinavia. Childcare can be in excess of 100 quid per day in London. Particularly before the age of 3.

an hour to get in on the bus from Zone 2?

good grief, it takes me 1hr 30 minutes from Zone 5/6. I thought Zone 2 would at least get you a 40 minute commute.

there you are OP, if you actually miss this sort of chat you should come back, we'll probably start on about The Knowledge in a minute.

@Kennington I'm not it's ok to stay in Scandinavia just for the maternity leave and free nursery...it needs to be more than that. I might even want only one kid...
@Lorelei76 I'd rather talk about buses journey than nothing at all:) I like London struggle stories. I'd be fine to live slightly outside of London is we can commute and have a small house. It would be even better actually.

*I'm not sure if it's ok

I agree - there is no point having great nursery etc., if you have no friends and struggle with the language...

Good point about the childcare it is just so expensive even just outside London.
keep in mind as well the cost of the commute which can be a couple of grand a year for a close commute into town.