to move back to London?

[Almondmilk]

I know that AIBU advisors are very opinionated, I take a risk here!
Here is the case: my partner and I,, both Europeans met in London. We lived there. We moved to Scandinavia as he has a property there and I wanted to give it a try so he wouldn't sell it without having lived there together. It's been two years that we are there and I can't get used to the lifestyle there. It's good for plenty of reasons but I also miss a lot of things: friends, arts, automn, etc! I have learned the basics of language but I can't picture myself speaking a third language, I am just tired of it. I miss my mothertongue as well as I am fine speaking in english. My partner isn't fond of the culture of his homeland and he doesn't have friends here (he doesn"t bond with Scandinavians!). The most important things we have here are: a good small flat, clean environment, small costs. But I feel like we will always miss having friends and unexpected situations like we had in London. Work opportunities here are none so we have created self-employed situations - well at least it works for me, not for him yet-. We are bored at night (especially me) and weekends and it affects our relationship.

I feel VERY guilty question my geographical situation. So...Aibu to want to move away, or back to London/UK? Please be frank but kind as I already struggle enough, it's 6am and I haven't slept a wink.

I actually agree with the deteriorating point, sort of. I lived there for 30 years until 6 years ago, now go back twice a year or so (live in the States now). I'm finding London to be far more stressful than it used to be, in parts. It's become so expensive that more people are being pushed out to the suburbs. This means more people commuting, higher housing costs everywhere, parking is a nightmare everywhere. Add to this a rising population and I find London over crowded.
Having said that, it's still the best city in the world imho :) But now, unfortunately, only if you have lots of money (if you have kids. If no kids it's still decent).

London isn't deteriorating fast at all. There are bad parts of anywhere but you'd be hard pressed to find somewhere more interesting and vibrant and a more fantastic place for kids to grow up. Yesterday we got on the tube at 3pm and were by Westminster by 3.15. We walked over Westminster bridge to South Bank, we popped into the Winter Market and then spent half an hour in Foyles bookshop before watching the skateboarders. We then walked across another bridge and up the Strand to Covent Garden, had a coffee sitting outside and my eldest two wandered off to a pop up exhibition they'd read about on Facebook. They joined us again and we wandered up to Chinatown, ate a great chinese meal for 5 of us for £35 and then got back on the Tube and were home and doing maths homework by 7.30pm. Eldest will be back in Central London next Saturday morning, using his Oyster card which gives him free travel on the bus and cheap travel on the tube, with a couple of friends to go to an exhibition (free) that they fancy and then he'll meet his grandparents who are taking him to see a play which is part of his GCSE syllabus. How can that not be a great place for a child to grow up? Children and especially teens can have wonderful life in london with minimal cost, masses of culture, in a place where for the most part it's safe for them to be so long as they're clear about where they can and can't go. West End is all fine as is a lot of the East End Spitalfields area. Like anywhere, there are places to be avoided but the main areas are really fine.

BillSykesDog makes very good points about money. Remember too that if you have kids your ability to work FT and earn what you earned before will be severely curtailed, so don't assume you'll make the same money or better in the future. Chances are, you'll be on less money than before.

I lived in London in my 20s and fucking LOVED it - back then I couldn't imagine living anywhere else. Now in my early 40s and we live 20 miles out in nice commuter town. All of our friends from our London days, bar one couple with kids, have also moved out. We've moved all over - some to commuter towns outside London - others have relocated to other areas of the UK to be nearer to family. Don't assume if you move back that your friends will all still be in London, or if they are, that they'll stay there.

I have to agree London is getting worse in terms of affordability. I grew up on a working class street where almost everyone owned their home and had one parent at home. Just looked on hoopla and there's a (small terraced) house down that street going for £1million now!

Seedy underbelly?
All my friends are complaining about how sanitised and uniform everything is. They yearn for the days of the seedy underbelly of Soho and the East End, but it's all chain bars, new build flats and Jamie's Italian. You can't even get a late drink in most of Soho now...

Of course London isn't a perfect utopia, but I don't recognise a lot of 'problems' being listed on here, such as 'sky high transport costs'. Bus travel is £1.50 for 2 buses, so you can easily commute for £3 a day from most areas. Travel cards are still very reasonable even if you are in zone 3 or 4.
And there has been a huge wake up in recent years that you don't have to be in Zone 2 to have a good life, so huge areas in Zone 3 which wouldn't have been on anyone's list, suck as Lewisham, Acton, Woolwich, Leytonstone, West Norwood, are now all lovely and good value places to live, where you can still have a social life and local cafes

newbiz you're right that London is unbeatable in terms of things to do (lots of free museums and events if you keep an eye out) but at least for me it's unbearably busy especially in the run up to xmas. I like the odd day outing London but couldn't stand to be there everyday anymore. So it's swings and roundabouts and depends a lot on personal taste and budget as most people can't afford to buy in a decent area.

Don't get me wrong, it's home and I love it, but I'd no more raise kids here than throw them to lions

. What a ridiculous over reaction!

Op...you don't sound too happy where you are so yes, why not move back to London. Are there no other places you want to consider though? Where is your home country? Do you not want to be there? Is your dh from the same place originally as you?

I think you should come back to London. You sound miserable.

I live in London and I'm raising my child here. It not perfect. It's so expensive that we can't afford the kind of home I grew up in (a house with a garden, also in London) so we live in a small flat with no garden. However, there's so many positives. So much to do, many beautiful parks and waterways, easy to get around by public transport, lots of job opportunities, lots of educational opportunities for dd.

London has always been crowded, and I presume that having lived in Scandinavia, the expense will be comparable. But I do agree that to really enjoy London with children, you need to live in 'proper' London, not the suburbs. And for that, you need £££. The museum's may be free, but the £8+ travel card is not. The overcrowded tubes and fighting your way down the street with a buggy and a child in tow are not fun at all. And that's before buying stuff the kids want from the museum shop/cafe when your mortgage or rent is eating up 2/3 of your salary. There is only so many times morning old sandwiches eaten in a picnic area is fun. I left London recently, but if my kids wanted to go back, Id tell them to go in their 20's, live in a bedsit and enjoy it as much as they can, as it's the best place in the world. There are also parts of it I would never live in, especially with a child, and unfortunately they are the more affordable.

it's unbearably busy especially in the run up to xmas. I like the odd day outing London but couldn't stand to be there everyday anymore

By 'London', do you mean 'the west end'? Because I was in my local area yesterday, and other than people lugging christmas trees home from the Garden centre, it was anything but 'unbearably busy'. Actually, we couldn't get a table in the pub for lunch, but that's because they were showing football.

The places you go when you live here, and the places you go on day trips to are not the same at all.
It's a bit like calling Yorkshire unbearable because you can't get a table at Betty's Tea Room on a Saturday afternoon! London isn't overcrowded if you stay away from the tourist traps

You have no ties and you are self employed. Live where you want. You may decide to go back to Scandinavia later but for now it is not what you want. Why are you feeling guilty? It sounds like your partner hates it there too?

userrandomnumbers So those of us raising children in London are 'throwing them to the lions 🦁?'
My 3 seem perfectly happy as do their friends and all the many others I see doing normal things like playing in the park, riding their bikes and going swimming and to the pictures. I have a friend whose DSis and her boys moved to a small village a year ago with 3 boys - oldest was 11 and they also had 9 year old twins. Friend's DSis and the boys came to visit her in London a few months later and he refused to go back and is now living with his aunt and cousin. He told his parents that, if the Police got involved, he'd tell them that he was being abused. When they asked the Police for advice, they said there wasn't really much they could do. I think that children can have a happy upbringing anywhere but it's a huge adjustment for a boy that age to move from London just at an age when he wants more independence (which teenagers have in droves in London due to excellent free public transport) to somewhere his main leisure option is 'going into the village' or walking in a field.

sparechange I meant the centre of London. Although the same could be said for the area my mum lives in (zone 4). Lots of noise all the time - traffic, sirens etc. I guess for me part of the benefit of London is having access to the attractions in the centre but it really is crazily busy. If I was going to stay in the suburbs I'd rather just move out to a less expensive town (which is what I did).

You can't get a house with a garden for under half a million in most areas of London and lots of area don't have good schools.
My Dh commutes in, we live in a lovely village with a brilliant school, a few nice places to eat and could get a nice house for under 250k. I wouldn't give up the peace and greenery to go back to London for anything. I have a large ish historic town 10 minutes away on the train too.

This is just my personal preference, I'm not saying people who love living in London are deluded (there are definitely things I miss) but for me there would have to be amazing benefits to justify the cost and noise.

Although I should add that my DH does have an expensive commute but it's more pleasant than he used to have from zone 4 and only 10 minutes longer!

haveNoSocks
You would want to go to the main central London attractions every day?
The museums are good, but they're not that good!

The advantage of having them on your doorstep is being about to go during the quiet times, and during the crazy Christmas rush, having a tonne of other lovely free things on your doorstep to go to, surely?

lol no of course not everyday but I can go into London on occasion from where I live now and have lots of other lovely things on my doorstep, schools, libraries, museums, green space, nature a back garden etc. There are other things I miss (more multicultural, night buses etc!). I think in my old age I can put up with noise and hustle and bustle less too (plenty of people probably wouldn't be at all bothered but I am!) and the cost is just so astronomical it would have to be almost perfect to lure me back.

As I said this is just my preference. Definitely not claiming that everyone should move out into the sticks but for me it was definitely the right choice!

Well I'm a born and bred Londoner with generations of family born and bred there too.

The place is dirty, over crowded, over priced and has changed beyond recognition from what it used to be.
You can't park anywhere anymore and the traffic is an absolute joke. It took me three hours to get home last week after popping to see someone- and , no, I'm not talking central London here.

I moved away from London eight years ago. Best move I ever made.

Horses for courses and all that but beyond depressing is what London is to me now.

I know this is said on every single London thread, but just because you don't live in London, doesn't mean you have to live in ' the sticks'. Norwich, Brighton, Leeds, Birmingham, Manchester Cardiff etc etc etc etc aren't in the sticks! They are cities ,with museum's, theatres, cinemas hot and cold running water and everything !

Brexit is your real main issue here. If you aren't here already and aren't both from the UK then you might not have the right to move here or stay here soon so do look at whether either of you have a British passport and what rights any children you have might have if born in London in future.

European citizens with jobs are not going to get deported are they? this kind of scaremongering is just silly.
If Brexit means that people from Europe will stop coming here to get benefits and to go on the housing list, then that is a different story, and does not apply to our OP.

haha sorry raisedbyguineapigs I agree the other major towns aren't living in "the sticks", I was talking about where I Iive which is a small village outside two bigger towns so feels like the sticks to me!

BratFarrarsPony but what if they set up home here, get kids settled in school and one of them loses their job or becomes disabled and can't work? I wouldn't move anywhere without a safety net.

I really have no idea...but I do think there is a lot of unfounded scaremongering going on.

depends which part of London.
do some research on the net first, maybe have a weekend over here and travel around a bit get a feel for where you want to go?
do you know anyone in London who could give you some tips as to where is good / bad? any forums on the internet or something>?
it is very expensive to live in any part of the south east or London but you probably know this!

But all the things OP is missing - art, multiculturalism, other europeans, being able to speak her mother tongue, things to do at weekends and in the evenings - you're not going to get those in the sticks. You are going to get them fairly easily in London, whichever bit you chose to live in

Someone who misses all those things by being in another country is still going to miss them while living a ballsache train journey away, surely?