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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To stick to the bloody court order!!

114 replies

Mooey89 · 10/12/2016 08:43

I genuinely don't know if IABU and petty or not.
Abusive ex pushes boundaries absolutely constantly.

We were in court on Monday for a child arrangements order directions hearing.

Initially he has been given 4 hours per week. The dates and times are set out in a schedule which we both have a copy of.
Because he uses handovers to be abusive, it was agreed that either a)his brother or of unavailable my partner would meet at the local shop to handover.

This was agreed in court and is in an order.
This is in part so that there is no need to text for arrangements - he was constantly texting me abusive messages multiple times per day.

He's just text to say: 'my parents will collect from your house tomorrow at 1'.

I have no issue with his parents at all. But this is not what the order says and it's the first contact and it's the start of the pushing of the boundaries!

WIBU to say no, DP will meet him or his parents at the shop as per order? Or is that ridiculously petty??

OP posts:
Liiinoo · 10/12/2016 09:40

You are doing exactly the right (and legal) thing sticking to the court order. If you agree to this small change this time he will continue to move the goal posts every time until he is making you all jump through his hoops again. Ignore his texts and carry on as before. If you are worried about his parents turning up at yours don't be there. Go shopping, go to the pub - he no longer determines your movements. Don't let him manipulate you any more.

Aeroflotgirl · 10/12/2016 09:40

It's about control and playing games. Yes your partner texting is a good idea. you

RandomMess · 10/12/2016 09:41

You really shouldn't have replied - he wanted to engage you in conversation so he could continue to be abusive towards you.

The only time you need to even bother reading them is when the DC are with you in case there is an emergency.

Lesson learnt from now on completely ignore and do not respond to ANY texts prior and stick to the court order to the letter.

Flowers horrid situation to lie with.

Northernlurker · 10/12/2016 09:42

What a bastard. Hope it goes smoothly tomorrow. You are totally right to stick to the order. If he keeps pushing he will end up with no contact. What are his parents like? Are they likely to be hostile to your partner in front of your child?

JoffreyBaratheon · 10/12/2016 09:42

I've been in an identical situation, although mine had Prohibited Steps Order and received zero direct contact in the end. You need to keep the abusive messages, for one thing. Because, to protect yourself, you need to ask your solicitor about the possibilities to YOU pushing it further.

And for another thing - no to the parents. He sticks to the letter of the order, from day one, or no contact.

Hissy · 10/12/2016 09:44

Why on Earth does anyone in their right mind think this man is a suitable person to have access to a vulnerable child?

Save every text and make sure you go for removal of access in future.

I wish the bloody courts would start demanding a minimum level of normal to enable access to children

Farmmummy · 10/12/2016 09:46

I'm sure you already are so I apologise but make sure all these texts are screenshot with the times and dates clearly visible plus your responses which are more than reasonable. Also as most pp have stated and you have already told him stick to the order no matter what! This shows the court you are sticking to it and shows him you won't be bullied (after 3 years you would think this may have got through but clearly not). Aside from that don't engage and keep your solicitor informed

Anniegetyourgun · 10/12/2016 09:47

How obliging of him to put his suggestion that you can ignore court orders in writing. I am sure if any issues were to arise in future the judge would be very interested in those texts.

Vital IMO that you stick to the arrangements, not only because of the legal aspects but because you know if you started to allow pickups from your house, eventually he'd be coming along for the ride and just, er, sitting in the car minding his own business... no, I wasn't calling you anything, I was just talking to myself, you can't stop me muttering "bitch" to myself can you? etc etc.

oleoleoleole · 10/12/2016 09:47

Stick to the order

Keep the texts

Text him once a week and state date and time DC will be at shop. Then say no further communication will be responded to and ignore everything else.

toptoe · 10/12/2016 09:49

Ignore all texts. Be at the shop at appointed time. If someone is not there then go out. Stick to it rigidly and allow no movement, no matter what reason he gives. I would always send your partner because his next move would be him turning up to see you at the shop.

Sit down and work out if you were an arsehole, what would you do to fuck around with the court order. Then you'll be ready for tactics he uses to control.

My guesses are:

  1. Try to pick up from different place
  2. Pick up at different time
  3. Pick up in person if you are going in person
  4. Drop off in a different place
  5. Drop off at a different time
  6. Not drop off at all and try to get you to come and collect

etc etc

For each one, work out how you are going to prevent it or deal with it. So the pick ups are straightforward. His parents are either there on time at the right place or no handover. End of. No matter what the reason.
Drop offs are more tricky, but as there is a court order just involve the authorities every time he is unreasonably late. You could pre-empt the drop off being up to an hour late but anything after that you get the authorities involved as you can't wait at a shop for more than an hour.

There really should be no need for texting your dp at all, this is just his way of getting to you through him. It might even cause your dp to side with him sometimes, which he would love.

NeedsAsockamnesty · 10/12/2016 09:53

Text back 'All of this is excellent evidence so thank you. Partner, at shop, at 1

It is in her interests to be able to provide any evidence of her claims should she wish to address the matter in front of a judge, the man is clearly stupid but if she really spells out that she will be using his texts then he will just stop sending them and start calling from withheld numbers

HateMrTumble · 10/12/2016 09:54

Stick to court order, although I got one last week I will absolutely not stick to so maybe that's contradictory Hmm

Miserylovescompany2 · 10/12/2016 09:55

If someone else is doing the pick up/drop off then shouldn't they be the ones texting? The whole idea is to cut out the BS?

Don't get drawn into his texts. Be clear, simple. If his texts are abussive then simply text back "please stop harassing me" don't block him, because if you require a non-molestation order in the future. You'll need the texts as evidence.

He has no reason to contact you. If there's a problem then with the child, then that's the only time or reason he should be contacting you. Otherwise, it should be done via a third party.

HoopsandEverything · 10/12/2016 09:56

Also can't help thinking he's suggesting you break the court order so he can use it against you in the fact-finding trial?

doingitdifferentlytoday · 10/12/2016 09:57

You've done your bit now. You are complying with the court order. Block his number. Keep the brothers number.

Do you get on with his parents?

If you do, answer the door to them and say the children are waiting outside the shop with your partner as specified in the court order. Explain you HAVE to stick to what the court has ordered. Thank them for coming and say you are sorry the details of the court order were not passed on to them. And leave it at that.

If you don't get on with them and are likely to get abuse, write the same message on paper and tape it to the door.

You have done all you can. It's over to him now.

Original poster
Mooey89 · 10/12/2016 10:00

Mrtumble out of interests what is the order you got that you won't stick to?

OP posts:
AlpacaPicnic · 10/12/2016 10:01

You need to stick to the exact wording of the court order. This is evidence of you being reasonable, rule abiding and respectful of the court. (Ooh, nice alliteration!)
They have taken time to draw up these rules for your benefit so it would be foolish to ignore them.

If your exp wants to make himself look arrogant and disrespectful then he's a grown adult, that's his call. Don't give him any ammunition. Hopefully it will come back and bite him in the arse.

AHedgehogCanNeverBeBuggered · 10/12/2016 10:02

Are his parents aware he's doing this? He could be telling them all sorts of rubbish about you. Can your partner show them the texts and explain that this is why they're having to collect their DGS from a shop?

JoffreyBaratheon · 10/12/2016 10:02

Someone upthread mentions responses to texts. You need to stop making any response. You also need to make sure your partner (and no-one else either) also does not get involved.

I've been through this too. Because I had a Legal Aid solicitor, it cost me nothing for her to get a Prohibited Steps order. You can also get private injunctions which the police will 'help' with, if you can afford it.

Someone there needs to be aware you are being sent abusive messages NOW, not at the final hearing. If it's an interim order you have, then I'm guessing it can be adjusted.

You hear horror stories about Family Court judges granting access to parents who have even assaulted the other parent in front of the kids, but my experience of the Family Courts were that they took no crap from my kids' dad, and made it so my kids have grown up with the last ten years being absolutely free of having some mentalist in their lives. A man who sends abusive texts is not a safe person to have unsupervised access. And if he is - well, the courts need to be aware of the facts in order to come to a decision that is safe for your kids.

NeedsAsockamnesty · 10/12/2016 10:02

One a week to say date and time DC will be at shop

They both have a court aranged list of future dates and times, no contact at all is required, no confirmation no arangements no contact if any description.

She does not need to text not for any reason at all about contact.

I would get DP to go the shop as normal buy a newspaper or a few penny sweets and obtain a receipt if he shows up hand over kids if he doesn't go home after waiting a reasonable time put receipt in safe place.

ShebaShimmyShake · 10/12/2016 10:07

Reply once to say you will all be adhering to the court order and now you are blocking his number. Then do block the number. As you say, the order is partly to eliminate any need for texting, so there is nothing more to say after that and you must not engage. Any response is good to him, don't do it and don't let him wrangle anything.

JoffreyBaratheon · 10/12/2016 10:07

If you need him to be able to contact you, for now, I'd buy a £10 brick phone, with a pay as you go card, tell him that's what you've done, give him the number to make arrangements, and tell him you will not be responding to any messages, just concerning yourself with the logistics of drop off and pick up, and the phone will be kept for evidence in future hearings.

I got to the point I was getting tens and tens of texts a day from my ex. It took several court cases (and the best part of a decade) to finally stop him contacting me at all. Never respond. That feeds their obsession. But I'd buy a 'disposable' phone just for this person, (and get a new number on my current phone) then leave it in a drawer except for days when you need to be dropping off or picking up, until you can get back to court and persuade them that a contact centre might be a more appropriate setting, for this person.

ChicRock · 10/12/2016 10:08

The court have put this schedule in place to help you.

Time to start helping yourself.

Responding to him in any way is not helping yourself.

NeedsAsockamnesty · 10/12/2016 10:10

depending on how able you are to deal with his nonsence I may be inclined to consider not blocking his number.

The bizarre texts my ex used to send to the £5 handset I used to store in a drawer and only check every few weeks were incredibly helpful when I needed to evidence that he was unreasonable and threatening

Oldbutstillgotit · 10/12/2016 10:11

Court order is there for a reason so stick to it. Your ex is trying to control you so do not allow it . Good luck .