Active discussions

Help end medical misogyny. Sign our petition.

Help end medical misogyny.
Sign our petition.

Sign the petition

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

"Taboo" sex stories

116 replies

HoopsandEverything · 09/12/2016 09:43

So, I think I may be told AIBU and am a prude, but would like to know what the general consensus is.

So, if a sex story, which is completely fictional involves a 14/15 year old girl - is that wrong or right?

Just words, no pictures. No lack of consent from the girl in the story.

I don't know if Taboo is the right way to describe it either (this is why the whole conversation started, because I had described it as such).

OP posts:
DeadMorose · 09/12/2016 10:31

Ah, but if it's not okay, would it be, if characters were in the country where age of consent lower than UK?
In countries like Germany, Austria and Italy it's 14. Or if the book was international bestseller for target readers aged 13-16 and translated to English? Would that be inappropriate?

MephistophelesApprentice · 09/12/2016 10:32

Laiste

No, there are no laws censoring fiction regardless of the purpose.

prh47bridge · 09/12/2016 10:35

So whilst this is a "willing" participant is it rape that is actually being described in this story?

No, this is not describing rape. The posters who say it is are wrong. It is only automatically rape where the child is under 13. Where the victim is 13 or over and consents it is classed as sexual activity with a child which is a lesser offence - Sexual Offences Act 2003 S9. Depending on the circumstances there may also be other offences (causing or inciting a child to engage in sexual activity and meeting a child following sexual grooming spring to mind) but it is definitely not rape.

As for the original question, I agree that it depends on context. There are many great works of fiction which include sex with a young girl - Romeo and Juliet, and Lolita have already been mentioned. If the writer is recording historic events or writing a novel in a historic setting it may be reasonable. The age of consent was 10-12 until 1875. It wasn't set at 16 until 1885. Erotic fiction is another matter. It is not illegal but I would find it unacceptable.

ChaChaChaCh4nges · 09/12/2016 10:37

Thing is, I have all kinds of sexual fantasies about things I would never in a million years want to do in real life. I know with absolute certainty that I won't ever act on them. But the thoughts do go through my head. (They're not underage or incest, BTW, or indeed illegal from my perspective.) So would it be intrinsically worse if I wrote them down rather than just thinking them?

SaltyBitch · 09/12/2016 10:40

What if I wrote my autobiography? I lost my virginity at 15.

LostMySanityCanIBorrowYours · 09/12/2016 10:41

If you wrote them down for the sole purpose of arousing others, I think it would be intrinsically worse.

Although I guess that depends on what you are writing.

I write all kinds of things I'd never do, but they are not illegal. Morally questionable, maybe and femininsts would have a field day with them, but not illegal.

YelloDraw · 09/12/2016 10:51

I worded it clumsily, but i would have thought that writing and publishing obviously for the purpose of sexual arousal has to be constrained by the laws of the land doesn't it?

Why? It isn't a crime to be aroused by something. It is only a crime to actually do something illegal

Whilst I do not think that that 'taboo sex' is a good thing to be reading/writing about - I think it is a dangerous line to be treading to censor fictional writing.

Wonderflonium · 09/12/2016 10:54

What if the story is set in a country where the age of consent is 14?

CherrySkull · 09/12/2016 10:56

any under age sex written about graphically is absolutely wrong.. i think alluding to abuse going on (Without going into detail) in some books is ok if its part of the story or a characters background is ok, but i personally think if its against the law, then you shouldn't be writing about it graphically or to titillate the reader.

As for adult literotica, i have no issue with it, you will find most writers have their own morals of what they will and won't do.

I've written some pretty graphic sex scenes as part of some of the fiction i write, and the content would probably not be to some peoples tastes.. and i can assure you, some of it isn't something i would ever do myself (So its not always acting out inner fantasies) but the character i am portraying/writing would, and it makes sense in the storyline.

PortiaFinis · 09/12/2016 11:00

Isn't the problem the normalising and the validating.

Surely out of all the fantasies and ages of people to fantasise about - to deliberately choose to write a fantasy about someone under the current, national age of consent suggests that there is something about that age that is important to the writer and to the reader who finds it a turn on - and that is what is concerning. That a choice has been made to make it about a child.

If it's for fiction written for that age group then that choice is understandable and to be expected. If it is a reflection of someone'a life then it is an account.

But if it is purely for the arousal of a different age group then that choice is suggestive of something else.

It may not be illegal but I think it could normalise a choice that should remain a red flag.

shovetheholly · 09/12/2016 11:01

It really, really depends what the story is doing. A lot of fiction sets out to explore deliberately difficult subjects in a critical way. Young adults may write sexualised stories about each other aged 15, and that would be totally normal.

Even paedophilia can be the subject of great art - Nabokov's Lolita, Mann's Death in Venice, Joyce Carol Oates's A Fair Maiden, etc. etc. etc. None of these works 'promote' it; all stand in a critical relationship with it. There are literally dozens of love stories involving the under 16s from earlier eras.

shovetheholly · 09/12/2016 11:03

(I'd also point to writers like Judy Blume. Women who were at high school in the 90s will remember her! Her writing included young adult sex scenes which were largely designed to educate and inform and to send a healthy, positive message about sex to young girls).

cdtaylornats · 09/12/2016 11:11

You have heard of Lolita?

creakyknees13 · 09/12/2016 11:14

To be honest, the age of consent is 15 or even 14 in many countries, so no, I wouldn't say it's pedophilic in any sense. If it's wrong to read about a 15 year old having sex, why is it OK to read about people being brutally murdered and tortured (the key feature of most of the books at WH Smith it seems)? Reading about something doesn't mean that you are going to act out those things. Nobody is harmed in the making of the material (unlike visual porn). Therefore, I do not think it should be banned. However, I would be disturbed if my partner enjoyed and got off on reading about rape, underage sex or pedophilia. But I still wouldn't ban stories that mentioned them.

Original poster
HoopsandEverything · 09/12/2016 11:22

I hadn't heard of Lolita, and I've just googled and read the first couple of lines on the wiki article.

It just makes me feel really sick. Like retching sick.

I think I might actually need to talk this through with someone.

OP posts:
HarryPottersMagicWand · 09/12/2016 11:22

YANBU OP. I would view anyone who wrote this very negatively and I would wonder why on earth they would even fantasize about something like that. I would basically view them as a paedo and think that they clearly had those urges whether they acted on them in RL or not.

SaltyBitch · 09/12/2016 11:26

How had you not heard of Lolita? It's so famous.

prh47bridge · 09/12/2016 11:32

I would basically view them as a paedo

Disagree. In many countries the age of consent is lower than it is in the UK and sex with a 15 or 14 year old would be legal. Technically a paedophile is someone who is primarily sexually attracted to children aged 13 or younger.

Do you view Shakespeare as a paedophile? Juliet was 13. The play was written at a time when the age of consent had not been formalised but was generally viewed as being around 10-12.

Original poster
HoopsandEverything · 09/12/2016 11:34

No idea salty

OP posts:
PortiaFinis · 09/12/2016 11:37

But I think the thing is that Shakespeare didn't write R and J to deliberately arouse nor did he deliberately choose to use someone below the age of consent.

I think it is the choice to write about someone who is technically a child and to write about them in a way intended only to arouse. Neither of which Shakespeare did.

FilledSoda · 09/12/2016 11:48

"retching sick"?
Yes I think you do need to talk to someone.
Is there a reason why this affects you so strongly?
Why are you posting about this ?
Lolita is a really well know piece of lit

JAPAB · 09/12/2016 11:52

Reading about something doesn't mean that you are going to act out those things. Nobody is harmed in the making of the material (unlike visual porn). Therefore, I do not think it should be banned.

There is a lot of Japanese Manga and Hentai out there featuring high school age characters. Animations and drawings so also not featuring real people, but things you can buy off the shelf in Japan are banned in the UK nonetheless.

If the argument is that those who view it and get turned on by it become more likely to do it in reality, then that would probably extend to fictional stories as well.

In terms of what I think ought to be illegal, I have never really been big on policing "thought crimes". People's fantasies are ultimately their own business. It would be preferably if everyone was only interested in adults, but I am not going to support punishing someone if for them that is not the case, and/or they use material that no-one was harmed in the making of such as these stories.

So I guess it all comes down to whether there is such a link between reading and doing.

OohhThatsMe · 09/12/2016 11:53

I was on Amazon looking for chick lit the other day and was horrified at the amount of step-porn that was on there. Obviously I knew there were pornographic stories online, but I didn't think they'd be sold via Amazon.

creakyknees13 · 09/12/2016 11:54

I hadn't heard of Lolita, and I've just googled and read the first couple of lines on the wiki article. It just makes me feel really sick. Like retching sick. I think I might actually need to talk this through with someone

You feel sick about Lolita? By the way, Lolita is not some erotic/porno type thing, it's a very highly regarded literary masterpiece. I am also shocked you had never in your life heard of it. But just so you know, I have it on my bookshelf and so do millions of others- it's very well written, despite the creepy subject matter.

If whoever this is about has just read/written about 14/15 year olds, while it would make me question what they are actually turned on by, it's not pedophilia. Pedophilia is being turned on by pre-pubescent children. End the relationship if you feel too affected by it.

HarryPottersMagicWand · 09/12/2016 11:54

"Disagree. In many countries the age of consent is lower than it is in the UK and sex with a 15 or 14 year old would be legal."

I don't care what it is in other countries. That doesn't make it right. In some countries it's considered perfectly fine for a 9 year old girl to marry an old man. It's not right just because it isn't illegal there.

Swipe left for the next trending thread