child pointed toy gun at me

[morningtoncrescent62]

I know that telling off/not telling off other people's children has been done many times on AIBU. But genuinely not sure whether I was in the wrong here. On the bus this morning, woman got on with two children aged about 5, dressed up, obviously excited about going somewhere. One of the children was dressed as a cowboy, complete with toy gun. I'll admit I hate seeing children playing with guns, but I know not everyone feels the same. They sat behind and across the aisle from me and I was reading a book and trying not to be distracted - they were fairly noisy but not unreasonably so in the circumstances.

A few stops before I was getting off I looked up to find the child with the toy gun pointing it at me and pulling the trigger repeatedly. The woman hadn't seen as she was rootling about in her bag. So I said to the child, not sharply but firmly, 'Please don't point your gun at me, it isn't very nice'. The woman looked up and apologised. Then she took the child on her lap for a cuddle and started a loud conversation with the other one about how adults sometimes talk to children instead of the adult who is with them and this is bad and wrong. Which is OK if it's her position, but nothing at all about how sometimes when you point guns at people and pretend to shoot them they don't like it and they ask you not to. I was tempted to say to her that if her child was too young to be asked by strangers not to point his toy gun at them, then he was too young to be allowed to play with it in a public place - but I was about to get off the bus so I didn't.

So, MN jury, WIBU to speak directly to the child?

Too right, and it doesn't sound like she was polite at all. The kid wasn't shoving in her face or anything he was just playing and a stranger telling him off would have upset him and knocked his confidence! If she was that upset she should have spoke directly to the mum. Not the child.

I don't remember any of the older menfolk expressing any discomfort of reservation.

That generation were very much told to shut up and put up, though. Often to their detriment.

charlottelou Don't be stupid. A child is not so fragile that they will crumble if an adult on a bus asks them to modify their behaviour.

And if the mum is going to have a go at a stranger in public, when their kid is watching, then that mum is too unstable to be out in public.

A child needs to know their mum is there to protect them against any weirdos that want to try and tell their kids off For stupid reasons. No one has any right to tell other peoples children off for their 'behaviour' that's up to the parents. This is why she should have approached the parent FIRST and let parent take action which she thought best at the time

I think the weirdo a child needs to be protected from is the mother who has a go at strsngers on public transport.

What exactly do you mean by you would have known about it .. ?? What action would you have taken because the tone sounds extremely hostile.

Can see there is a mixed thread response. I personally don't think OP did anything wrong. Comment sounds polite and there are many people who don't like having toy guns pointed at them for a number of reasons. I let my children 'shoot' me but even I have enough of it sometimes and ask them to stop. If we're out then they are allowed to shoot stuff but not people and this is generally with a stick or something as we don't have guns.

Had OP shouted at child or been rude I would feel the response was out of line. I don't think they did anything wrong speaking politely like that to the child and would not be offended if someone said the same to mine.

Totally agree. What would the mother be 'protecting' the child against by getting up in someone's face? If you are under attack by someone with genuine threatening behaviour, you close the threat DOWN. That's what you do. You don't escalate or teach your kids to escalate. That is seriously amateur.

And if it's not a big threat, it's a small disagreement... so you don't get in their face like a crazy lady and show the kid how to create aggro. You use your social skills, and give your child the infornation they need to understand later.

OP, it sounds like you escaped with your life on this bus. Was everyone packing ammo or just the little kid?

I agree with BertrandRussell and maninawomansworld01, the rule in our house is any sort of guns are never ever pointed at people.

There's actually a bit of a continuum between "toy" guns and dangerous guns too. Water guns, nerf guns, I don't know what kind of projectile comes next but a kid once pointed a "toy" gun at me through my front window and pulled the trigger - it broke the window. Not such innocent fun. This year's toy gun is fine to point, next year's isn't, is not such an easy thing for kids to understand and remember in the middle of a fun game.

I'm finding it really interesting that far more people are coming down on the parent's side here than you usually see on telling off other people's children threads. Where's the usual "it takes a village" argument? Can only assume there's not much overlap between people who think pointing toy guns at a stranger is not okay and people who think "it takes a village". I think this does rather demonstrate the problem with the "it takes the village" argument - not all the village operate by the same set of rules.

Though in this case not only do I agree that the behaviour's not OK, I also don't consider what OP said a telling off. Or if it is, I'm a far stricter parent than I realised - I'm politely telling them not to do things all the fricking time. They don't have the common sense of a cucumber, they'd not survive the day if I didn't.

I would have played along with the child instead, but it wasn't unreasonable to ask them not to point the gun at you.

The mother was rude and unreasonable.

No, I think the 'it takes a village ' are about behaviour which is universally seen as wrong: littering, snatching toys, whacking another kid. What people have pointed out is that the littwle kid wasn't doing something wrong, he was playing. If OP had come on MN and said I asked really nicely if he'd stop as it makes me uncomfortable but he carried right on and his mum did nothing about it, then I think we'd all be quite sympathetic.

Omg! You are lucky because if you would have said that to my child, you would have known about it ...

Im now imagining some sort of pistols at dawn scenario on the bus....

She did ask him nicely.

I don't agree with playing along with gun games - It seems to me children need to learn that pointing guns, albeit simulated, and any kind of violence is not acceptable in any shape or form so for me, the OP INBU and was right to scold the child.

If I'd been sat on the bus I would have been pleased to see her do this as it would teach me that there are still decent upstanding members of the public who do not think it is right for children to be given a free pass to do whatever they feel like. Children need to learn proper and acceptable boundaries for their behaviour in public and if the mother is not going to teach her child then she has no place complaining when someone else does!

No, she asked him 'firmly' (most kids know that voice from teachers or parents and it means you are dog something wrong). She also said it wasn't nice. I wouldn't say that is asking nicely, it's telling him he's behaving badly and needs to stop it now. OP has acknowledged she could have asked differently.

No, I think the 'it takes a village ' are about behaviour which is universally seen as wrong:

Um no.

The whole point of "it takes a village" is that not everyone in the village will agree on everything.

So your mother will let you play with guns, and someone else will ask you not to point those guns at her head becausevshe doesn't like it.

If the villagers are only allowed to speak to your child sbout pre-aaproved universal standards, then they are not any part of raising a child.

A woman asked a school age child not to point something at her.

You really have to be quite a controlling drama queen to get worked up that something so completely unremarkable happened to your child.

"Please don't point that thing at my head" is a request that should be respected, even if you don't understand why it was made.

Isn't it universal to teach children that if someone asks you to stop doing something that is notgering them that you stop?

Is it really a great idea to teach a child that it's fine to continue pointing at someone who has told you they don't like it and asked you to stop?

There must be some pretty awful brats being raised by some of the people on this thread.

And that's not even by the ones who are boasting about how they would have escalated the situation.

Doing something wrong

You can ask both firmly and nicely.

These 5 year olds too fragile to be spoken to firmly but politely really need to learn how to deal with normal situations.

That's the point Merry. To some of us, it is doing something wrong. There are no universally accepted rules because we don't actually live our whole lives in the same village any more and get all our parenting advice from our parents and aunts and uncles.
Snatching toys is another prime example. There are barely two parents who have the same set of rules about toddlers sharing toys, hence frequent barneys when one parent telling another parent's child off for not sharing/snatching at toddler groups.
Whacking each other too. Massive threads on MN about "normal childhood horseplay" vs "you may not hit".

The whole point of "it takes a village" is that not everyone in the village will agree on everything.

Ummm...yes. But sometimes the parents themselves are distracted or don't have the experience in how to deal with children. 'The village' teaches them.

Doinitfine, your post is full of errors on the OP:
someone else will ask you not to point those guns at her head because she doesn't like it No, she said it wasn't nice. Firmly.

"Please don't point that thing at my head" is a request that should be respected, even if you don't understand why it was made. That is true, but you have missed out the 'not nice' bit, and also the fact he didn't carry on.

Is it really a great idea to teach a child that it's fine to continue pointing at someone who has told you they don't like it and asked you to stop? Where did that come from? Have any posters (I admit to not RTFT) said they would have let their child carry on?

In my very post I said that the mother was unreasonable in her reaction as well and I would have said to the child some people don't like it, so you need to stop. It is always good to teach consideration. And it the Mum had come on here with her reaction, she would have got it in the neck. Nearly all the beginning posts said they were both unreasonable. But it is not the Mum on here.

Wow. Major overreaction OP to a child playing. My little boy was 2 and had a bright blue gun (clearly a silly toy) and was waving it about from his pushchair during a visit into a new town. The number of passerby's who clutched their chests and pretended to be shot or held their hands up smiling was astounding. My son was howling with laughter and it was lovely to see. One elderly gentleman even picked up his walking cane, cocked it like a shotgun and fired back! It was so much fun.

OP, turn your indignation into imagination and have some fun instead!

Sorry,' in my very FIRST post' and 'And IF the Mum had come on here...'

Even when people lived in the same villages for their whole lives and never left, they didn't all agree on everything.

What with being individuals and all.

Not pointing at people is as close to a universal rule of manners as I can inagine.

The child didn't get asked not to play with his gun, he got asked not to point it at her.

It wouldn't have bothered me if a child had pointed a gun at my head.

Neither would it bother me if my 4 year old was bothering someone on a bus by pointing something at then, for them to be asked (firmly!) to stop.

One person made a brief request if a child.

In resoinse a sevond oerson made a massive song and dance about nothing.

But it's the drama queen teaching her chikd that people have no right to speak to him that people are defending.

Madness.

You can ask both firmly and nicely if you are a parent. True. But it still carries a tone of 'you are misbehaving', which as revealed here, is a very subjective view. I think the vast majority see it as playing. I don't think the vast majority will think whacking other kids or snatching toys is 'playing', but you'll always get one of 'those' parents.

A stranger asking 'firmly' will never be nice. Sometimes it shouldn't be (eg. if the kid had carried on after being asked purely nicely and not firmly at all).