AIBU to think no one has come out of this looking great?

[ilostdoryintheocean]

Really need help. DS is 11, and has been excluded for swearing at a member of staff. I don't condone his actions AT ALL - but I have been concerned about this TA for a while and I feel awful as I feel I should have spoken up for him earlier.

So here is the situation, DS has had a lot of early childhood trauma and he shows many autistic traits but has not been formally diagnosed. He colours in as a way of calming himself down but knows he needs to stop colouring and start work when the teacher has finished talking. Sometimes he refuses. The teacher then sends him outside to calm down (it's pointless confronting him.) The teacher has been really good with him.

The TA hates his colouring and shouts at him to stop. He then shouts back. It then turns into a shouting match. On Friday he told her to fuck off and that her breath stank. she is understandably furious but AIBU to wish she'd just back off him a bit, she really does seem to have it in for him a bit?

OP - never, ever post about childhood trauma or neurological issues that affect behaviour on AIBU.

Most of MN is incredibly ignorant about the complexities of the issues involved.

I'd post on the SN chat board instead - you'd get much more sensible respones from people who know what they're talking about.

Italiangreyhound: I disagree that shouting at someone is always wrong - like you, this is IMHO. And believe me, I have no difficulty whatsoever with believing a TA can be crap

PS that first sentence was not directed at the OP - you know what you were told and have no reason to disbelieve it.

Italiangreyhound: I think the OP was harsh to assume I thought she was a liar. I don't disbelieve her, I don't disbelieve the teacher. I think the TA may have a different perspective on what happened.

italian

If you read my post you'll see that what's puzzling most people is why school staff are apparently not addressing the issue, not whether it's true or not.

In my post I said that in my school, an incident as described in the OP would not be dismissed eith by the teacher who witnessed it or the head teacher who was informed of it.

If indeed the staff were all completely dismissive, I've suggested the OP escalate the matter to the chair of governors, but she hasn't responded to that.

I disagree that shouting at someone is always wrong

It depends on the "someone". Do you really have no children at all in your school whose behaviour policy says "use a calm level voice tone to give instructions"?

Surburban I feel I am getting very confused here as I am certainly reading an inference in your posts but I am not completely sure as to what that inference is.

So - you are a teacher, I presume, you are on the other side of the classroom and you hear a TA shout. You start to walk over.

Go on, how should the rest of the tale go? what would you have done from this point forwards?

Kleinzeit: I said I disagree that shouting at someone is always wrong, not that I think we should be shouting at everyone constantly. If there is an IEP in place for a child then of course staff who have been made privy to it need to follow it. That isn't the case here.

I cannot see how swearing is being labelled as agressive here and shouting is not!

OP the adoption boards on mumsnet are very good and most there will totally know where you are coming from and may have advice.

Just so you know, my advice (if I were in your shoes) is...

Write all your points out in order (either order of importance or potentially chronological if you feel there is a history of this TA behaving badly to your son)

Take your partner/dh (if you are in a couple) or a friend or relative to the meeting if you feel you will need support

If you do that, brief your supporter so they can remind you of items you forget/if you become distressed /or advise them to remain quiet if you would find that better support

Practise what you will say so you do not get upset

When I spoke to the school about my son I did not say 'he has suffered XYZ' I said 'Children who come through the care system have usually suffered/encountered neglect, been seperayed from birth parents and several foster caters etc... If it helps to speak in this way do that

Clearly relate how the incident was related to you

Listen to comments

Make notes

Request an action plan be made there in your presence (politely) even if action plan will be finalised later

Remind them that no 5 minutes of school work time will ever benefit your child enough to make up for this incident which has caused stress to your child and family and led to his exclusion. (Optional!)

Actually it is all optional! But that is what I would do.

When I reminded one teacher that my son had lost his birth family and foster family, she asked me if they had died!

Some teachers will not understand what bring on the the care system (and the reasons for it) does to kids. The PP money could be used for TA education.

I can't tell you what you're inferring from my posts, OP, only you know that.

No, I'm not a teacher.

But when I worked in a classroom, if I saw something (such as a member of staff getting very close to a child's face and shouting at them), I would speak to the class teacher and if I got no joy, I would escalate it, in line with our whistle blowing policy. But that's as a member of staff.

As a parent, if I didn't get a satisfactory response response from the head, I would escalate it to the chair of governors.

You're not a teacher, but you seem very confident that you know what the teacher should have done, so I am genuinely very interested.

Thank you Italian.

Rhonda "If you read my post you'll see that what's puzzling most people is why school staff are apparently not addressing the issue, not whether it's true or not"

I did see that and I do agree it is a good point.

Some school staff TA, or otherwise, can be a bit bullying, just as they bully kids they bully adults. That could potentially be a reason.

Of course the TA will see it differently.

Truth appears relative. But it is real, not relative. We need to understand how others perceive what happened but it does not mean there is not one true real event! There is!

I agree an assessment is probably best, but surely if a child is struggling, they should be offered support regardless of any labels they have or haven't been given?

I work in a school, OP, and have done for 14 years.

I am very familiar with school policies and procedures as part of my role as designated safeguarding lead.

Now I've answered all your questions, would you be able to answer mine about whether you will be escalating this to the chair of governors since the head teacher's response was unsatisfactory?

No, I'm sorry, you haven't answered my question at all. I asked you very genuinely what you feel the teacher should have done:

in the classroom
in the meeting with me and the Headteacher
after the meeting

You're not a teacher, yet you are designated safeguarding lead? That's unusual.

Italiangreyhound: Yep. But without the TA's version of events you have no way of ascertaining what happened, let alone establishing an objective truth. The teacher saw the TA shout. The OP believes that was the TA's first interaction with her son (and if that is the case I would agree wholeheartedly that that wasn't okay). What we don't know is whether the teacher missed an interaction between her pupil and her TA that occurred before she shouted at the OP's DS. We would need the TA's side of the story to have an idea of this. Calling her a bully before you have heard it is unjust.

Not unusual at all, OP.

Every other person in my LA who has the same role as me is a DSL.

Whats' the point of asking me what I would have done? I wasn't there.

Any thoughts about escalating to the chair of governors, OP?

What is your role? Again, I am just interested.

I am also interested in what you feel the teacher should have done

Trifle I did not say 'shouting at someone is wrong... I said ...

"Trifle shouting at an individual, any individual, anywhere, in this way for this reason is wrong"

ie in their face to get them to start doing their work.

I would shout if physically or verbally attacked/insulted, if I saw others attacked, to stop someone running into traffic, if someone was damaging property, if in an argument with an equal etc etc... Not in the face of a child over such a trivial matter as staring their work! The shouting is too, top soon, it is a kind of punishment before anything has happened! Luke smashing the TV remote because changing channels is taking too long.

It is counterproductive.

I'm asking you what you would have done because you seem so fixated on the fact that the teacher is in the wrong and the TA is not.

And no, I am not "esculating to the board of governors."

Childhood trauma is not a recognised disability

But the effects of it can be, as can the effects of autistic traits.