To think 335,000 extra people coming to the UK in a year is too high

[jdoe8]

Where will they all live? What jobs will they all do? I know it may help GDP, but that is irrelevant as GDP per head is the important thing.

It does seem to be race to the bottom with more part time work , uber type work and the country is borrowing more and more and the national debt is 35k per head now.

Mrs Snootch
"Where I come from English people are in the minority and it is frightening walking past large groups of people who insist on street drinking as is the cultural norm where they come from, etc. "

Where I live it is ENGLISH PEOPLE that are drinking in the streets and are frightening brawling huligan types.

And may I just point us that "us immigrants" pay tax too. I have been in the highest tax bracket since I set foot in this country nearly 20 yrs ago

Mrs Snootch, are you ok? You seem deranged. Well hopefully with brexit and trump you can look forward to a "brighter future". Good for you, well done

And may I just point us that "us immigrants" pay tax too. I have been in the highest tax bracket since I set foot in this country nearly 20 yrs ago

Lndn the idea that a person's value is determined by the size of the SA302 is completely fucking repellent. You might want to reflect on how much good you're really doing for your own side of the argument with that tack.

Yes. Everyone has their own charm. Every child I have ever taught, including the most challenging, is loveable in some way if you give them a chance. You might feel like you are banging your head against a brick wall sometimes, but it doesn't make them bad. It is really important to differentiate inappropriate or bad behaviour or decisions from making someone feel existentially bad. An incident can be learnt from. Once an individual feels like badness is part of who they are it is much harder for them to make good choices.

Most people who are difficult to deal with are going through their own challenges and need patience, not judgement. If other people forget to withhold judgement then it doesn't make them bad people either. Some people find it harder than others to be open-minded, kind or forgiving. Again, possibly because of their own experiences.

But that is all completely irrelevant to the OP's thread and to the problem of managing population trends, so I am not going to answer if you give another retort for my belief that people are fundamentally good. We disagree. It doesn't make me think you are a nasty or rude person. Healthy disagreement has a place, but not in derailing someone else's thread with an irrelevant aside.

Yes. Everyone has their own charm

What a load of crap. I come across arseholes all the time (nationality irrelevant)

Every child I have ever taught, including the most challenging, is loveable in some way if you give them a chance

I hadn't realised we were talking about children. Of course all children, even difficult ones, have good qualities and the potential to grow up to be amazing people. What kind of person would think otherwise?

but none of that is the fault of the EU,

Except that FOM rules are framed as a reflection of the situation in mainland Europe without any recognition at all of our very different housing and benefit structures.

We know that much of Europe rents on different terms and more cheaply and flexibly, and that most other countries have contributory benefits systems. But no allowance for these differences is permitted.

Everyone has their own charm

Who said that?

Was it a follow up to the "every immigrant I've ever met has been utterly charming" patronising stuff?

Manumission, fair point i shall bow out. I have just had it with people approaching my 4 yr old son (who is black british) with "when are you going home comments". He IS home ffs.

The flip side? These people are entering a country that is in the grip of a housing crisis, while many of the houses they've left behind remain empty.

that's not an EU problem. That's happening in the UK as well. The housing crisis isn't uniformly felt across the country. In some places, it's downright cheap to get a house. Elsewhere, a whole generation is locked out of home ownership.

We know that much of Europe rents on different terms and more cheaply and flexibly, and that most other countries have contributory benefits systems. But no allowance for these differences is permitted.

they are doing it better. Maybe this is the impetus needed to change. A contributory benefits system makes sense whether or not we are in the EU, as do better rental protections.

A contributory benefits system makes sense whether or not we are in the EU, as do better rental protections.

How on earth could we implement those? In particular the contributory benefits.

What you are saying is it's not an EU problem, the problem is we should make the UK more like other EU members - why?

Of course he is home.

But the money argument is a race to the bottom, it really is. You will role so many different groups of people that way.

You can't combat racist dicks who say revolting things to small boys with "because I'm worth it" philosophy.

rile^

Ah yes those naughty immigrants... propping up the NHS when everyone knows the government is trying to run it into the ground!

Manumission, I agree wholeheartedly. Problem is, for immigrants like myself we have spent decades proving to brits that we are worthy in a very unworthy please like me, we are trying so hard to be one of you Kind of way.

It is not even a money argument as such tbh, it is a counter arguement to the "all immigrants are here for the benefits" argument. Some of us, were pulled in on huge receuitment drives to come here. Let us not forget that.

Sorry last one. Those racist dicks make a huge impression on little boys, as a mother you counteract that nonsense in any way that you can. So if a dickhead asks my son "when his mum is going home to her own country" i say to my son that "we are here already in our own country. Your mum pays alot of money to have the fortune to stay in this country, we work very hard to stay in this country, we pay our way in this country blahblah blah."

Yes I can see how the thought process runs.

But it was like that pre-referendum meme of the barrister and the firefighter and whoever else with the "we came to the UK to work as an X" type strap line. I just flinched every time I saw it. It just so illustrated the canyon of mutual misunderstanding.

i say to my son that "we are here already in our own country. Your mum pays alot of money to have the fortune to stay in this country, we work very hard to stay in this country, we pay our way in this country blahblah blah."

You know I find that kind of fascinating and horrifying and contradictory all at the same time.

Who pays a lot of money to stay in their own country? And is that really your concept of citizenship and belonging? Or do you and your son have different legal statuses and you're trying to come up with a formula that encompasses BOTH your relationship with the UK and his? Maybe that's what you have to tell him, I don't know. It's interesting food for thought.

Many of the issues around FOM are in the UK's power to change

usuallydormant - you are right. About 3 yrs ago the Mayor of Calais, Mme Bouchart, said exactly that. Make GB's benefits less generous, to fall in line with France's and Germany's, and Calais jungle dwellers would be halved.

(I'm in no way having a go at you BTW Lndn. Just chewing that over)

that's not an EU problem.

It's very much an EU problem. Whilst internal UK migration would be a positive thing, the ongoing mass exodus of people is decimating the fabric of society in many Eastern European countries.

It is entirely possible for the UK to tighten up their own rules to ensure only those able to support themselves come to the UK to work, without leaving the EU/EEA

As UK has not tightened up rules, it means that open doors and our benefits system to EU people is what our govt desires. It's deliberate.

Actually that's not quite what Mme Bouchart said -

“There are no ID cards. They can easily find work outside the formal economy, which is not really controlled. They can get social welfare support that doesn’t exist in other countries,”

I have no idea why she thinks ID cards would make any difference - and she's ignorant in any case, any of the jungle dwellers we admit will be forced to have an ID card.

She has a point about illegal working though doesn't she?

People are scared to look like a racist, however it is a matter of economics - there is NOT enough of anything in order to let thousands of extra people move here

I agree, MrsSnootch and I worry about the real racists who have entered our country and other parts of Europe. Look at this beautiful girl, Maria, daughter of an EU official who was murdered recently.

"A MAJOR news programme has caused outrage for refusing to report on the arrest of a migrant over the murder of a German teenage girl because the story was "too regional" - despite making headlines around the world."

www.express.co.uk/news/world/740008/Maria-Ladenburger-murder-German-State-media-Tagesschau-report-migrant-killing-story

As UK has not tightened up rules, it means that open doors and our benefits system to EU people is what our govt desires. It's deliberate.

Or else the government asked the EU what we could do and still stay within the FOM rules and they said "nothing".

Don't you think the Tories would have done this if they could? The benefit cap has been so popular Labour has had to adopt it - surely they would have loved to prevent EU workers coming here without a confirmed job, if they could? The truth is the EU doesn't allow it.