Partner on wards after birth - part 2!

[CherryChasingDotMuncher]

Wanted to continue this discussion as someone asked about stats re impact of visitors on wards.

I doubt there's stats anywhere (can't find anything with a quick Google anyway) but ask yourselves, why are visiting times the NHS over generally kept to a few hours a day? Because it's disruptive for the ward and patients need rest, and it can be a huge infection prevention risk. This is no different for maternity.

Original Thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2790704-About-partners-on-the-ward-after-childbirth

It's actually dangerous to genuine gas lighting to misuse the phrase.

• victims of genuine gas lighting

Missduke - that was because cherry said that she was allowed to stay in her delivery room with her DP for a good few hours after giving birth. But she wants to deny other women the same support if their hospitals don't happen to have capacity to keep them in a delivery room for hours after labour. Which I happen to think is incredibly nasty!

I spent almost of that time getting cleaned and stitched up, I was a patient who needed to be there, I would never deny another patient's needs in the same way, a woman should never get stitched up in a mixed bay.

Tenporary where is this extra £1k coming from? You? Patients own pockets? If it's the latter I don't see why I should pay so my DH doesnt have to be there when I wouldn't want him there on the first place. And as I pointed out earlier staffing issues are rarely due to funding. And you say I'm obtuse.

Shit postnatal care is the shitty icing on the turd cake after a shit birth
If giving birth is so terrible why do people keep on doing it over and over and over again??

Just out of interest where are posters getting the 1 in 10 women are raped stat? National statistics say 1 in 5 women are victim of attempted or completed rape and 1 in 2 are victim of other sexual violence. Rape crisis/rainn/napac/nspcc etc tend to have similar stats. Some other assosiations have higher (self reported studies saying 1 in 3 etc). There is ofcourse the famous one in four charity that has a great deal of research showing 1 in 4 children are victim of sexual abuse. Which of course isn't rape, but having been abused and raped by men and women there's no difference in effect/damage ime. Sorry to derail. Just wondered what stats placed it so low.

Campaign for tax rises, vote for someone else, march on parliament but don't charge women who have the good grace to ask their DP to stay at home for the sake of vulnerable women to suck up extra costs.

It's kind of that situation though, isn't it - if everyone just sent their child to the local school in the end there will be no bad schools and everything in theory should even out. But no one wants to be the first year or two to do that. No one wants to make the personal sacrifice and you can totally see why.
However it is 100% the lack of care at fault and something terrible has been missed somewhere along the line where visitors are acting as carers.

The thing is with visitors acting as carers its all well and good if they are caring and that's what people think they should be there for (the people in favour of it) but so many people think it is "men should be there because they have the right" or as some DM comments showed "if I couldn't have been there for my son then I would have made him be born at home."
Soon the common thought process will have evolved from several years ago it being about the woman, currently it being about shit care and soon the whole process will be male centric. I do 100% believe that, if the men on the wards I have been on for all of my 6 children have behaved. Ringing bells asking when tea trolley will be made, asking for snacks, asking for an extra pillow (for him), asking why in the heck he can't use the loo right there, asking for change for the vending machine on and on and on. Those wards were centred around the men and their performances and that's before you get to the abuse.

Sorry but of a stream of thought there, just waiting for my pain medication to kick in so I'm all jittery and hyper.

How the fuck do you know what I'm a victim of temporary? And If you don't think being told I need therapy because I don't want to be sleeping next to strange men and "paranoia is bad for you you know" is gaslighting, then what is it?

Gaslighting is a twattish and cunty thing to do. Those words are perfect

But if I take your concerns into account and still put my baby and my health first by not sending my partner home, I'm "fucking selfish". According to you. And it's me who won't compromise?!

If you say "I hear what you're saying, ininderstand the imact this would have on your MH but don't care enough to even compromise" then too right you're fucking selfish

From your own pocket. Which is fucking obvious. You asked for a compromise. This is the only one that doesn't see you terrified by my partner and my baby left alone when I can't help her.

You clearly were not in the same physical state as I was, as I just can't believe that any new mum would be happy with her baby potentially waiting for ages to be helped when she couldn't move. More than one poster has talked about babies being left to choke on mucus (one was helped by someone's partner in fact) - how traumatic would that be?

Crikey it's a pretty heated debate on here. Clearly the real problem is the chronic lack of NHS funding on maternity wards. I personally would hate male visitors on my maternity ward 24-7. When I was in with my 2nd there was a visitor dad there with the tv blaring for hours until I had to complain. He didn't seem to be offering his partner much support with the newborn but that was one anecdotal experience! It would be great for everyone to get a private room. I had that for my first and it was great. I think I just got lucky though DH says it was because my language was so bad in labour they had to keep me away from the other mums. A further, if controversial issue of course is that we are tending to have babies much older and this combined with obesity in mothers is leading to far more complications and c-sections. That's a haRd one to solve though. We could all be kinder to each other on this thread though. A lot of hateful things have been said, which is sad. I have just read that the poster Cherry is still to have her baby. This means she is pregnant and vulnerable, she could probably do with less venom from other posters at this time!

its either 18 in a space designed for 12, or12 with the care provided for 6 (if that).

Why is it either/or? The hospital I gave birth in had adequate staffing to look after women and babies on my postnatal ward overnight. It wasn't perfect (I'd have killed for a single room away from everyone else's visitors), but everyone got cared for overnight by staff - no partners. And this was two years ago in a big city NHS hospital.

We aren't doing anyone a favour if we act like this is an impossible dream and the only chance we have to get good care is to bring in our partners, every woman for herself and sod anyone who doesn't want them there all night.

We need a system that works for all of us, not just you and your Norman.

Changeling rapecrisis.org.uk/statistics.php

I think these have been updated since I last read them so you're probably right!

No, cherry. Putting my baby's needs before a stranger's is not "fucking selfish". It's "we shouldn't be in this situation but as we are, I choose my baby."

It's a total dick move to try and make women feel bad for wanting to help their babies.

Because biology? Babies are lovely? Cultural or religious reasons?

I'm about to have another but I've done everything in my power to try to mitigate against a shit birth. I've only got postnatal that I can't do anything about. Which is probably why I'm over invested in this, even though it's turned into arguing about lovely dhs. :)

Temporary, I think every woman posting on here cares about her own babies.

Handbag - you've made a lot of sense I think.

But if my DP were actually called Norman, I'd have had a rethink and possibly kicked him out in shame

Sure. But cherry is trying to make people feel bad for doing that, saying that we should make assumptions about how strangers might feel, and that it's "fucking selfish" to have support. It's a bizarre way to think about other mums IMO.

From your own pocket. Which is fucking obvious. You asked for a compromise. This is the only one that doesn't see you terrified by my partner and my baby left alone when I can't help her

It's also fucking stupid. How do you propose people who have no money afford this? Would bailiffs be round if they didn't pay? Making me pay for you to not have your ideal situation is not a compromise. you say I don't know what words mean.

I was more looking for a compromise at what do we do if the situation happened tomorrow, on the ward, at the time of care. Which you don't have. Thought that was obvious but it certainly has tickled me that your compromise is to make me fork out £1000

Those wards were centred around the men and their performances and that's before you get to the abuse
This is one of the points that the OP was trying to make.

No, I was suggesting the opposite! The hypothetical £1,000 would be to provide extra carers who would be doing the stuff that the partners are doing. So the partners could go home overnight and then nobody would be worrying about themselves/their baby being without help

This is totally genius, except for the bit where it's totally nonsensical. Like the bit where partners might have to go home to look after other kids, because not everyone has 24/7 care for other children for days on end if needed. Or there might not be partners. Or they might not have £1000 handy. Or when we think that actually, it might not be too much to ask to expect the NHS we pay for anyway to provide a basic standard of care for women and children post-childbirth.

Is it only women post-childbirth you think should pay to get medical and nursing support in hospital? What about orthopaedic patients? I reckon anyone who's broken a leg and is in traction should have a family member staying with them and providing basic care because otherwise they're a total burden on the NHS.

(any offence to Normans real or hypothetical is entirely unintended!)

Actually I wish I could remember the name of the husband of the woman I stayed next to on the PN ward, because I'd be alllllll too happy to use his for hypothetical husbands. Sadly I can't remember anything other than "Arsey McArseface," and I don't think that's what his wife called him (sadly).

Cherry is saying, I think, that it's selfish not to care about the impact on other women patients. Not that it's selfish to want your partner there. If you want your partner there 24/7, what suggestions do you have to reduce/remove the distress and risk to other women?

Today 20:40 SpeakNoWords

Cherry is saying, I think, that it's selfish not to care about the impact on other women patients. Not that it's selfish to want your partner there. If you want your partner there 24/7, what suggestions do you have to reduce/remove the distress and risk to other women?

This ^

t's a total dick move to try and make women feel bad for wanting to help their babies

It's also a dick move to force your DHs presence on others knowing it will be detrimental to their health and comfort.

I'm not trying to make anyone feel guilty, guilt is internal and if you feel that way it's nothing to do with me

But cherry is trying to make people feel bad for doing that, saying that we should make assumptions about how strangers might feel, and that it's "fucking selfish" to have support

I will say this one last time - I think it'll be the fifth time or so I've said it - I DO NOT THINK MUMS WANTING SUPPORT ARE FUCKING SELFISH. The selfish ones are those who say "I understand that my DHs presence makes you scared, uncomfortable and unsafe - no matter how nice I know he is - and understand it will impact your greatly. but I still don't care and will have my way". Of course it's not selfish to want extra support

Cherry asked for a compromise. It's not a perfect solution. Nor do I actually think it should be implemented. But nor is her insistence that I should have coped alone for 12 hours out of 24 when I physically could not have done so, especially for the first 5-6 hours, and the midwives were far too busy to help much. Jesus, I had to wait 12 hours for someone from surgery to come and look at my dressing because they'd given me some fancy thing with a pump and nobody on maternity knew what to do with it!

But your solution to wanting extra support is to say, "fuck you, your extra support makes me feel bad, so you can't have it."

How is that any better?!