About partners on the ward after childbirth?

[hullabaloo234]

Booked in for ELCS for breech baby.

Just going through this week's post and find a letter from the hospital about what to do/not do prior to the op, what time to arrive etc.

At the back is a letter for my "support person", with a list of do's and don'ts for their stay on the ward with me after my section.

Sorry, WTF?! I love DP dearly but not a chance do I want him or more importantly a load of other blokes on the ward.

I was already going to discharge myself the following morning but was realistic about staying a bit longer if needed- bollocks to that I am definitely leaving as soon as my catheter is out and I can walk again!

Am I the only person who thinks this is really bloody unreasonable?!

Immobile/paralysed whilst you wait for your epidural or spinal to wear off. As the person experiencing it I would call it paralysis, but I'm not a hcp. How does a woman with no feeling from the waist down look after a newborn on her own if she does not need extra support because she's not ill as she's only just had a baby?

Between the births of my dc, my local hospital changed its policy to allow dads to stay overnight on the wards.

When dc1 was born I was on a ward with various noisy oddballs and it was so peaceful when all the dads went home, much as I love dh.

As I prepared for dc2's birth I felt very anxious about dads on the ward. I was worried about feeling vulnerable with my newborn, and the increased noise, pressure on loos, showers etc. Also, my dh wouldn't be able to stay over because we wanted our toddler to have a bit of normality with daddy home overnight.

I needn't have worried. On a full ward of 8, only one mum had her partner there overnight. She arrived on the ward late at night and had clearly had a terrible labour. She needed him there and he was very quiet - no problem.

I had an elcs with dc2 after a bad time with dc1. I was still discharged after 24 hours.

What I would like to ban from postnatal wards (apart from the bounty women) are older siblings being there from 9am to 8pm when all but the dads have to leave.

It may be controversial but with both my births there were older siblings tearing up and down the ward, opening my curtain and wandering into my cubicle, lying down in the middle of the floor in front of me as I hobbled to the shower, making loads of noise... The list goes on. Short visits - fine, but women need to recover in peace and quiet.

Aren't those who don't need looking after sent home then?

'Patients will often have patient controlled analgesia or at a minimum regular opiates following such procedures.'

This! I'm shocked at how poorly so many women who've had CS are treated postnatally, and it's no coincidence that so many reports are coming out now about women and babies who have died due to poor 'care' postnatally.

I've born three children in two different hospital and seen women treated like shit after complicated births. Denied pain relief at the least.

When I had DS, my third, the lady next to me, who had her first via crash EMCS, was sat in a chair with both her buzzer and baby out of reach and left. At night. Her baby started hacking up mucus, sicked it up on her sheet, and when she stood to try to get to her, her legs buckled under her and she started bleeding out. She was crying out and crying out. The other mum in the bay, a 19-year-old, and I got up. The young woman went into the corridor to try to find someone as the lady was bleeding, whilst I went to pick up the baby and hold her upright so she could cough up the mucus. As it was, the young woman and I ended up changing the baby's cot sheets. The lady who'd had the CS was moaning in pain for hours, buzzing. NO ONE came and on rounds the next day she had to beg for something besides paracetamol.

And that was the third time I'd seen that happen.

That's fucking barbaric.

That's depressing miss that there was more than one pct in the news last week for appalling maternity care as I thought you meant the one in the north west!

The only CS I had I had a private room, for the other 3 I was on the ward but I had my own bed and a full curtain that could close all the way around it, I thought they were standard?
So do you know what I did? I had them shut when I wanted. I just asked people to do it for me. Hospital staff, other patients visitors, my visitors. Such a simple solution I never gave it a second thought until now.

When I had DD1, I was put in a side room after epidural and forceps birth and DH sent home. I couldn't feel my legs well but had no catheter. I buzzed and buzzed for help to get to the toilet and no one came. I wound up crawling to the loo, blood everywhere. Then told off for it. What was I supposed to do, piss the bed?

I've never seen people treated as horribly as I have in postnatal units.

'That's why I think postnatal should be a medical ward if the view of midwives is that women have only had a baby and they are not ill when the evidence on here and general policy clearly suggests that the vast majority of women are ill on postnatal. You don't have to be on Hdu to be ill from giving birth. I'm really surprised a midwife would say that women admitted onto postnatal ATM are just recovering from a normal birth and don't really need help because I really doubt it very much is the case in most hospitals.'

Hence, why so many women have had such horrific treatment on postnatal units. Look at the mindset! 'Oh, they don't need looking after'. They wouldn't be in the fucking hospital if they didn't need looking after.

If postnatal is staffed like a hotel for women who've just given birth but aren't ill and don't need medical treatment then it explains why the care is generally poor and overstretched. You don't miraculously recover from sepsis or severe blood loss because you've had a baby. Though if postnatal has magical powers I suggest we shove all patients on it as it will solve NHS funding and bed issues overnight.

Is there a woman in this country who has a straightforward labour and birth with a healthy baby and no mh issues who gets a bed on a hospital postnatal ward in 2016?

'Is there a woman in this country who has a straightforward labour and birth with a healthy baby and no mh issues who gets a bed on a hospital postnatal ward in 2016?'

I went home off the delivery suite with DD2 11 years ago.

Wound up spending time in postnatal units more with DS and DD1. With DS I had high blood pressure and got stuck on the postnatal unit for some reason before I had him and then after as an epidural didn't bring down the bp and it took lots of Labatalol to do so. Then I needed two lots of drug to expel the placenta. And tore. So yeah, not straightforward.

The ones who have straightforward deliveries and no complications usually go home.

But hey, let's treat them all like they need no medical treatment.

It's very telling to hear that mindset coming from postnatal staff. And chilling. No wonder so many damning reports of needless deaths.

Deaths. 'Lessons will be learned'. But not by the dead children or women. Because dead people don't do anything but stay dead.

Fucking unbelievable! It really is.

Ugh the "I'm alright Jack" attitudes on this thread are revolting. Women who know that, no matter how lovely they believe their DHs are (including a poster whose DH bullied a MW into breaking hospital policy describing him as 'gentle') know other patients will be deeply uncomfortable or in some cases, terrified, having them there, fuck them, their need for their man at their side is more important. Fuck the reasons NHS have for same sex wards, fuck the fact that hoards of posters have shared stories of disrespectful male visitors - including telling a woman off for breastfeeding and shouting at a baby - their hubby is lovely so it's not heir problem. Nay, it's up to women themselves - many of whom are desperately ill and traumatised - according to one person to reign their vile partner in. That's the obvious solution to intimidating men here

Thinking more about it I don't get why people believe that partners staying 24/7 will free up HCP time. I work in a hospital, I'm not a nurse but I obviously know many and are good friends with many who work on a mix of specialities - such as coronary care, HDU, maternity, paeds and stroke. They all have different roles but all have one common belief - the hardest part of the day is visiting hours because so much of their time is taken up. As you now have triple the demanding people, questions, more abuse, more demands and ranting, and more people to explain things to. Many of my nurse friends prefer night shifts for this reason. Having 24/7 visitors on a ward will only take up more resources and HCP time, especially if men are trying to get them to do things they don't already have time to do.

Then what happens? The women who have no partner there are the ones left behind. So they have no support and even less HCP support. Plus they're probably feeling possibly intimidated or put out due to the male presence. The thought this other partners will help them in the long run is pure delusion.

FWIW I have a DH, we are due no 2 in January and my local hospital doesn't do the 24/7 visiting (thank god!) but even if t did I would not want DH to stay with me - we could if we wanted as we have good family who can sort childcare, but both of us have discussed on the back of this thread and we both agreed it's not appropriate and we wouldn't want to put others in that situation. So not all of us with supportive DHs would take that option.

I'd like to reiterate again NO ONE is saying that men should never be on maternity wards. Just not for 24 hours. When you can't reach an agreement decent human beings compromise, and for me 12 hours during the day would be a decent compromise. But no, some people have to have it all and have unlimited access, they don't want to compromise - fuck other women, fuck the single mothers, fuck the most vulnerable.

Also I loathe that women are told that their health doesn't matter as long as baby is OK. This "babies will be neglected" is utter bollocks. Babies have very basic needs - 3 really, food, nappy changes and comfort. The vast majority of women can provide this alone in a postnatal Ward. For those who struggled (me included) there are ways to make it easier (co-sleeping, close cot, BF peer supporter etc). For those who still struggle, HCPs are there to do basics like hand you your baby. I appreciate this isn't always quick but it's a resource that is there.

Mothers in a postnatal state DO NOT have just 3 basic needs. We're far more complex creatures and even with the smoothest of births mothers will, for the most part, have many more health issues than their babies. Saying "well your baby is more important so suck it up" is gaslighting bullshit and that attitude is in part why we receive such shitty maternity care, so I don't think a thread about how to make maternity care better is the place to laud this belief.

Also what magical powers do people think men possess that will make such a difference to the way care is delivered on wards? It's a depressing day when a HCP listens to a man's demands about his female partner patient than they do the patient herself.

CherryChasingDotMuncher

This.

A round of applause for Cherry

If you have serious issues post birth then the ward should operate like a normal hospital ward. The issue of staffing is different to having partners there. There should be more staff, post natal wards for those with complications should be staffed as other hospital wards. That is the issue, not should people have their DH on the ward overnight or not. I almost died, I was so desperate to get out of the ward full of people, rude and arrogant other halves. I was probably as rude back as I was soooo fed up. I ended up back in 2 weeks later emergency surgery at 10pm for a secondary post partum haemorrhage, blood poisoning etc - my sofa got binned! A bit third world, but it is on the increase here / I basically exploded. The staff were amazing, but no despite my walking to the Loo in blood soaked clothes, I couldn't cope with all the flaming crappy it's my world male entrenched visitors. It's a flaming recovering ward not a post baby ward where everyone is going home in a few hours. Not a male bonding zone. So no the OP is not being unreasonable. If there are medical complications there should be no overnights from OH & bloody restrictions during the day. Not everyone behaves as your DH. My DH was amazing, but went when the times required - others bloody don't. The day time "we will not leave brigade@ is bad enough. It's makes the patients want to go home, even if they are not well enough to. When men can give birth then they can have equal rights to the post recovery wards. Not all of us have princess births or aftermath and we need to be dealt with medically, not societally.

Whole troops of people turn up when it's supposed to be 2 at a time. I ignore it more these days because of the arsey responses I get and I'm too busy to keep arguing with people.

What is it with some visitors on a maternity ward that makes them such wankers?!

I suspect the answer is sexism related because people don't feel the need to respect women and their care or their health.

After having my DD 3 years ago, DH's family visited at the evening slot. There were 8 of them FFS including a toddler, all arrived at 7pm and stayed the whole hour (why couldn't they liaise and work out 10 minute time slots like normal people?!). They basically came in, told me how shit I looked (I did TBF, I had lost 3.5 pints of blood and had a 3rd degree war and surgery so looked half dead but still!) and then walked around the room with my baby - trying to get good lighting for a photo, talking loudly, group pictures, the lot. I could barely sit and felt so gobsmacked and so weak I couldn't object (DH had gone home for a rest at this point). I was shocked as they are usually reasonable people but they had no respect for the 2 other women in the beds who had just their partners there. The worst part was, come 8pm when visiting times were over, they all finally decided to leave except BIL only had his 2-seater van so couldn't take his DD and girlfriend home at once. The plan was he'd take his DD to his dad's (literally round the corner from the hospital) and then come back and fetch girlfriend. She was still there at 8.45 and I was on the verge of tears. A MW who only just noticed had to kick her out. Turns out, BIL was having a cup of tea before he came back to pick her up. She didn't have the consideration to go and wait in the lobby. And it certainly wasn't the MWs fault, they're not there to play teacher and send people away! I've always loved my ILs but at that moment o thought "I really am just a vessel to carry the next offspring and you couldn't give a hoot about my feelings"

Mortified isn't the word. I apologised profusely to the women in the ward after everyone left (and shared my maltesers with them!) but I just felt awful. They said not to worry but it must have been horrible for them. If this sounds familiar and you were there again I'm very sorry!

From a staff perspective, partners are useful for helping with basic baby care but a lot of the time they're a pain in the arse. Having to ask them please not to sleep in a hospital bed that's meant for patients, please don't walk around in just your pants (sadly a true story) etc. etc

Before people assume all men are like their considerate DHs they need to read stories like this!

Cherry and kew have it spot on.

I wish my OH could have stayed with me, particularly first time around with my EMCS. I was totally traumatised, not being supported by the night-time midwives (to the point where I was pushed backwards onto the bed and told to 'just feed her' when she was refusing the breast) and could really have done with the support and companionship. That said, I was discharged the following morning after both sections (2nd was EL due to placenta previa) so, hopefully you'll be home nice and quickly. Best of luck with the Op and enjoy your little one once they've arrived xx

I haven't been able to read the full thread but I feel very strongly about some of these issues.

Post natal care in the UK appears to be appalling beyond my worst fears.

The solution though cannot be allowed to be partners staying overnight on mixed wards. I have personal experience of being on a mixed ward when I was readmitted to a general hospital for DVT at 20 days post-partum. As I was at very high risk of further serious complications, I was told I had no other option than being on a mixed high-dependency type ward. It was horrific. My bay had eight beds, about half of them men. Including the two beds immediately adjacent to mine. I was still bleeding fairly heavy lochia, pumping breastmilk around the clock, feeling vulnerable and upset at being separated from my baby at less than three weeks old. I had extremely limited mobility, still had incontinence issues from the birth, still had episiotomy stitches. All of there things needed to be discussed audibly with medical staff several times a day as the whole ward could hear. It was awful to discuss my most intimate functions with a crowd of strange men in earshot. The only thing that made it tolerable was they were all sick patients too, also vulnerable, also in bed clothes, also liable to embarrassing questioning. If they'd been in the full of their health, empowered, dressed in real-world clothes etc, it would have been intolerable for me. Without the parity of vulnerability from all being patients, it would be awful.

And the lack of compassion on here from those who say they are midwives is appalling. Plenty of people are in hospital that aren't 'sick'. Someone with a gun shot wound or a dislocated shoulder isn't 'sick' but still entitled to adequate care and attention. Why does a newly delivered woman need to be 'sick' to get this? And for someone who isn't sick, postnatal women sure are a heck of a lot more likely to drop dead from a hemorrage or a pulmonary embolism or AFE or eclampsia or sepsis or dozens of other things than a woman who hasn't given birth. And if she says she is in pain, she is in pain. If she says an is exhausted, she is exhausted. If she says she needs help, she needs help. I rarely swear but fuck the all-knowing paternalistic midwives who think they are God and bully women when at their most vulnerable.

They all have different roles but all have one common belief - the hardest part of the day is visiting hours because so much of their time is taken up

I imagine that's because its much easier to ignore sick patients who are stuck in bed and can't get out than it is to ignore their healthy advocates who can actually walk up to them and directly ask for help.

It's a depressing day when a HCP listens to a man's demands about his female partner patient than they do the patient herself.

It's not about mens demands vs women's, is about people who are too sick and tired to fight to get their needs met vs someone who does have that energy speaking on their behalf.

Based on my recent non-maternity hospital stay my care was infinitely better during visiting hours when I had family members to help me, or go get staff when needed. At night I was simply left to suffer, not given necessary medication, not aided with toilet until hours after I requested it, etc. And as I was physically trapped there was nothing I could do but press the bell and hope.

I don't want strange men gawping at me post birth, but I don't want strange women doing it either (and no, it doesn't make it any better for me that they have given birth too - I have zero interest in 'bonding' with strange women so fuck off is it ok to have curtains open if there's no men around). Based on my hospital experience, having my husband there to close the curtains will give me a hell of a lot more privacy than being trapped in a bed with ward staff pulling the curtains open when they feel like it.

If someone told me shortly after birth that they were taking me away from my baby for no good medical reason for 12 hours I'd probably try to break bones to prevent them. No idea why its suddenly acceptable if the parent is male. I'd want my child to spend it's first hours with both parents if at all medically possible.

I think we should be campaigning for maternity wards designed to let partners stay (ie proper privacy and space) not shoving male parents away because 'they didn't give birth' as if that means the baby is nothing to do with them.

And I think hospitals should ensure that people who don't have a supportive partner get decent care instead of being 'left to it'.

I wouldn't of got through It without DP with me I would have felt so alone. We kept the curtains on so we wasn't intruding anyone's business but I seriously would have had a breakdown if it wasn't for him supporting me through each step.

CherryChasingDotMuncher

Fantastic post. I hope it gets through to some of the selfish women on this thread.

Which part of the country are you in? You are lucky to have your DP/DH stay with you especially after ELCS. My DH had to follow the visiting hours guidelines and leave at 8pm. Not helpful at all. One hardly receives support at night...no offence to health professionals

My first reaction was to say YABU due to the appalling lack of support I had after my emergency c section. V long story but i was incredibly unwell, surrounded by panicking doctors, immobilised and unable to even pick up my screaming baby. Once the doctors had stabilised me and left, I was alone and scared and in shock- incredulous that no one was around to help me or my baby. It was the most terrifying and humiliating experience of my life. I would have have given anything for my husband to be there.

BUT after reading others' experiences I think what is needed are sufficient caring and compassionate nursing staff who don't minimise our experiences. Which, funnily enough is exactly what I have had for every other operation I have ever had.

Yes bubbin ive lots of empathy.
However i dont get why men want to hang aroung on a womens ward when most ladies are in max of two days.
Those who are ill or baby is sick os totally different of course. Most arent. Childbirtg is a normal event

carmen sure it's 'normal' but for most people it's something that happens a couple of times in a lifetime. Something that most people will describe as one of the most memorable (for good or ill) occasions of their lives. These men may have become a father for the first time, watched their partner go through something unbelievable, and felt an overwhelming sense of responsibility and love for a tiny, vulnerable newborn.

Even if there was outstanding HCP support, even if everyone is doing well, is it surprising that some partners would just like to be there? That their attachment to their partner and newborn might be such that they're quite willing to doze in an upright chair just be close to them?

And I say this as a woman whose DH couldn't wait to get home to bed!

I'm not saying partners should stay overnight. It's just not hard to understand why people want to.

We often see discussion about how hcp don't believe women when they say they are in pain.

But weirdly, reading this thread, a lot of women don't even seem to believe other women when they talk about their experiences.

Loads of posters have explained that they weren't allowed to close their curtains for privacy and loads of people saying 'it's simple, close your curtains'. Loads of posters saying that men were obnoxious and abusive when they were in the post natal ward, and loads of others saying 'I don't know what you mean, it was fine when men stayed in my ward'. People have explained that hcp's don't always respond to buzzers (in fact after dc1, having had an emcs and PPH) I wasn't even given access to a buzzer) whilst others are insisting 'the hcps are there to do x, y, z, they might be slow but they'll do it in the end'.

But actually what I'd love to know is where it all went wrong? My mum had five children, in the 60s and 70s and whilst the births probably were worse experiences than what most of us experience today, she talks of the post natal care as being wonderful. They were supported with every aspect of caring for a baby until they felt confident to cope for themselves. They were given pain relief if they needed it. If they were delirious with exhaustion they were allowed to sleep. And most of all, they were treated with kindness instead of being treated as malingering whingers.

Obviously it wasn't perfect, and the model of care wouldn't work these days because most people didn't breastfeed in those days, but where did we lose our compassion for new mothers? At what point did the switch happen when you were expected to be pain free and self sufficient within an hour of birth, and viewed with suspicion if you're not?