About partners on the ward after childbirth?

[hullabaloo234]

Booked in for ELCS for breech baby.

Just going through this week's post and find a letter from the hospital about what to do/not do prior to the op, what time to arrive etc.

At the back is a letter for my "support person", with a list of do's and don'ts for their stay on the ward with me after my section.

Sorry, WTF?! I love DP dearly but not a chance do I want him or more importantly a load of other blokes on the ward.

I was already going to discharge myself the following morning but was realistic about staying a bit longer if needed- bollocks to that I am definitely leaving as soon as my catheter is out and I can walk again!

Am I the only person who thinks this is really bloody unreasonable?!

But equally some women also do actually want their husbands there apparantly our hospital are trying to bring it in at the request of mothers so does that mean the rights of women that don't want it come before the rights of women that do? I think that the only way around it will be to do what they do on other mixed wards- have half the ward for men and half the ward for women. Maybe they could have 2 bays of women who's partners are sleeping next to them in a chair and on the other end of the ward have 2 bays at the other end where the women who don't want men in the bay could have their privacy. This seems to work to separate men and women in the rest of the nhs? Just a thought

But equally some women also do actually want their husbands there apparantly our hospital are trying to bring it in at the request of mothers so does that mean the rights of women that don't want it come before the rights of women that do?

Yes. Because the rights of people who don't want to be nursed on mixed wards come before the rights of those who do, which is why the NHS generally is trying to do away with it.

Also, as has been said a few times, the idea of separate wards for fathers to stay is a nice one but unviable unless we have a system with a lot of spare capacity. Which we don't.

I asked upthread, what do advocates of this approach expect to happen when a woman is moved up to the postnatal ward at 2am, wishes to be on a single sex ward and the only gap is on the dads ward? Do we think our overstretched postnatal staff could be trusted not to try and press her into the approach that created less work for them? Do we think the woman would feel assertive and unthreatened enough to insist on the men being asked to leave, if that were what it took, and that the midwives would similarly feel assertive and unthreatened enough to facilitate this? Do we think all the men being thrown out at 2am would play along nicely? And indeed all the partners of those men, since we've established already that some women feel, to the point of obnoxiousness and delusion, that dads are entitled to be on the postnatal ward and other women who don't like it will just have to fuck off? What impact do we think all of this might have on that woman? Nobody seems to have taken the ball yet, though.

I genuinely don't understand people's concerns about fathers staying on the ward, however I do realise that some women feel like this. My best friend was lucky enough to be able to actively chose a hospital which did allow her DH to stay, and I would do the same. It's just a shame the choice isn't available to everyone.

Well I have to say, why can't we have two types of rooms?
One for women who want their partners around (and are happy to have the ones of the other women around too)
And one for the women who don NOT want men around (and their partners wont be able to come more than a couple of hours a day)

I mean it would be hard. There is always more than two rooms in a ward.
They would need to get an idea of the proportion of women who want or do not want men in the ward and they would be able to say. So we have 4 rooms on the ward, one will be for women with their partners and 3 for women wo their partners (or whatever other combination works better number wise).

Why does it have to be all one or the other??

YABU, the father has every right to be there

They don't. Postnatal wards are for women who've given birth to recover in.

hyacinth fair point i do think in an ideal world mixed wards would not exist in the rest of the nhs. I just find that fathers seem to get such a hard deal sometimes, they often get complained at for not helping and leaving their wives to do everything yet the ones who are really good and want to take an active role can't help out in those first couple days when a women needs it most. Consultant said that there was evidence that men are crucial to support a woman breastfeeding something out Nct class told us too and often its at night where women feel alone that they can struggle and want to give up. I realise im in the minority on this thread so I'll leave everyone to agree otherwise I was just trying to offer the view of someone who saw it from the other side

I live in a small city with a small hospital. Even they have 2 separate areas eachcontaining 4 beds. One could be for partners the other without. If its full, then people might not get their preference, but it's a start at least.

In an ideal world, adequate after care would exist anyway, but clearly it doesn't, and why should women have to suffer for years and years until potentially people see how bad it is and hope they fund it properly.

The stories of lack of after care here are horrific. The majority of men are not violent, not abusive and not pervs. In contrast, can it really be said that the majority of women receive good at night care for them and baby? Lack of care, in my view is a much higher risk.

I'm genuinely appalled at the idea of staying on this ward. Thank goodness I'm only staying one night, I feel very sorry for women who potentially face 3,5 even 10 days of the world and his wife hanging about all day and night!

I discharged myself after Dd1 AMAZING as the 4 bay ward was so noisy and disruptive I felt I was better recovering at home- it was so noisy and just 4 women with visiting hours twice a day! I can't begin to imagine how unrestful a ward of 6 women, 6 partners visiting 24/7 and babies on top will be

haha! Amazing should be AMA 😂😂

I don't think the idea of having different room (rather wards) is impossible.
It would mean that, at some point, some women wouldn't be able to get to their preferred type of room.
But then atm, all the people who don't want to be mixed with men have to deal with the fact they are surrounded by them anyway so it would still be a better solution than nothing at all.

The issue is to make it very clear what is and isn't possible right at the start rather than saying 'you WILL have a space on the women only room'.
Just like when I have birth, I knees it was possible to ask for a private room but I also knew that it wasn't sure I could get one, depending on how busy they were etc...
I have been extremely lucky in that, both time, it was actually a quiet time and I got what I asked for. Bt I wouldnt have been upset if it wasn't the case. I cannot imagine someone being upset because of it TBH. So it should be for single women only spaces after birth.

The real problem is that post-natal 'care' is fucking barbaric and I'm surprised more women and babies don't die. Women are routinely treated like absolute shit, even after major surgery - left with no food or water, no painkillers, no vital medicines like antibiotics, filthy bathrooms and floors, basically shoved somewhere to live or die.

THIS is the real problem and no one seems to be much bothered about changing that.

However I don't agree that women who support this move are 'obnoxious or deluded'!

The majority of men are not violent, not abusive and not pervs.

Oh well, that's grand, so. Silly women feeling like their dignity and right to privacy would be compromised by non essential strangers hanging around during intimate examinations and hogging the showers in postnatal wards.

hyacinth fair point i do think in an ideal world mixed wards would not exist in the rest of the nhs. I just find that fathers seem to get such a hard deal sometimes, they often get complained at for not helping and leaving their wives to do everything yet the ones who are really good and want to take an active role can't help out in those first couple days when a women needs it most.

Well, men don't require 24/7 access to maternity wards in order to take an active role. Especially those men who have children at home already. If there are women who would complain at men leaving their wives to do everything because those men have been banned from staying in the postnatal ward, those women are definitely BU! And notice people seldom suggest that we women who are separated from our babies in the early days because of special care must be impaired in taking an active role in parenting once the babies are out. I genuinely did do much less for one of mine than DH did because we were both so poorly initially, and I haven't parented them any differently because of it in the long term.

Agree about mixed wards in the NHS generally. Fortunately we have made good progress on these. We can't go back to those awful days.

However I don't agree that women who support this move are 'obnoxious or deluded'!

Assuming you are referencing my post here, I don't think they all are, we've seen a number of polite comments from supporters. Hence the use of 'some'. But if you can think of a better description for the ones who've gaslighted and told people who don't agree with them to fuck off, I'm all ears!

Dusty busty, silly women wanting to be properly cared for after major surgery, not be forced to spend the whole night holding a baby and sitting in a pool of their own blood. Clearly they should just man up and ignore the pain, the blood and the sleeplesness...

Men could certainly be asked to leave for a few minutes during examinations, or more use of curtains.

I have no desire for a stranger, especially a man, to be present during examinations. It should be more private. But I'll take that over being abandoned with a newborn at night.

hyacinth you quoted my post where I had a different view point, and then later on in the paragraph said about women being obnoxious and deluded. I have only ever commented politely that I personally am grateful my husband will be with me after my c section on Thursday. Ive seen plenty of comments here from people who want their husbands to stay to be shot down immediately

Unless your partner is a HCP, there's little they can do to help if you're that ill, really, apart from wring their hands.

Which they can do for 12 hours a day.

Oh god, this is a really tricky one.

The post natal recovery ward should absolutely be a cosy place where women feel safe. I hated visiting hours in the days after giving birth, I felt so vulnerable cowering in our cubical, trying to learn how to BF and bleeding all over the shop as the curtains were bashed and brushed from all sides and noise levels shot up to what I found to be frightening levels.

But, I had a section and a dural headache due to loss of spinal fluid. I couldn't sit up without feeling like molten lava was pouring through my head. No one seemed to believe me when I told them how bad it was until 24 hours later I mentioned tinnitus and everyone jumped into action.

I could really have done with my husband that first night, as trying to care for the baby whilst in so much pain and hallucinating through sleep deprivation after a 42 hour induced labour was completely unsafe.

Wow. Some real horror stories here. I'm so glad I didn't have to experience one of these wards. I wouldn't have been able to breastfeed in front of strange men. Full stop. Let alone express. And having conversations in front of a bunch of strangers about continence and bleeding! I asked my DH to to leave the room for those conversations.
I had a private room in Australia (and it was totally free).

I wasn't referring to you at all bumplovin. I said this thread has indicated that some women think, to the point of obnoxiousness and delusion, that men have a right to be on the ward and women who don't like that will just have to fuck off. You've not posted anything to suggest you're one of them. I've not seen you tell anyone to fuck off if their preferences are different to yours, or tell women no man will be interested in looking at them when they've just told very upsetting stories of that happening.

I found it very uncomfortable all the men on the ward wondering in and out. Naturally I felt protective about my baby and also myself after a very complicated c/s.

I think it would be much better to have restrictive visiting hours the calmer the ward is the better for recovery and the most important issues is for the women to recover and establish feeding (either breast or bottle)

Not read the entire thread but it's worth noting that some women are really ill as are some of the babies born so I think partners on the ward are fine. I found it more annoying that a woman was literally watching her tele 24/7 without headphones on.
Saying that, I was very ill after EMCS (hallucinating etc with infection) and I didn't want DP to stay as I needed him rested for when I came out.
Can you look to see how much a private room is for a few days? I'm not sure going home as soon as you can walk (12hrs after surgery) would be advisable. When I was in I had to produce a certain amount of wee for the MW to show my bladder hadn't gone into shock (which my SIL suffered from and she had to be rushed back to hospital)

Thanks hyacinth I guess I'm just very nervous about having an operation on Thursday and the horror stories about bells not being answered not being able to get help from understaffed midwives etc frighten me to the point that I am just very grateful my husband can pass me the baby if I still can't move my legs and go and find a midwife if they don't answer the buzzer and I need pain relief. I absolutely don't agree with people being obnoxious and not understanding that some people feel threatened by men on a ward.

Separate rooms aren't necessarily that easy to do. If that's the case what about the moms whose babies are in NICU who have to be around ANYONE who has their baby with them!