To expect books to be marked at least once in ten weeks

[Cabbagesandcustard]

DD started secondary school at the beginning of Sept. In some subjects (geography, science) her teacher has not taken in / marked her book once since then. Is this normal / acceptable? Or should I be on the phone to the school having a moan?
School is rather a closed shop: they don't seem to encourage parent-teacher contact apart from at parents consultation evening and it can be hard to know who to contact. Year Head? Head of Dept?

It is the practicalities of what you propose Trifles that I dispute rather than the theoretical aspect of it.

I think the core elements to teaching are planning work and assessing work.

You seem to be missing the actual physical act of teaching the work. That all goes to shit if the teacher is too knackered to do it properly because they were up all night marking.

OP has nothing been marked in 10 weeks or just bookwork? The teacher could have marked assessments?

wintersbranches: In what sense do you dispute the practicalities?

Yes, that is incorporated into 'planning', giraffe. I don't generally plan lessons I don't plan on teaching.

Because if you're ambling around the classroom providing feedback to thirty plus children when do you actually TEACH them!

The assessment you speak of depends on the students being there in front of you which gives you around an hour. Not enough time.

Anyway I must get to bed. Do carry on with the method though - sounds interesting!

I've never heard anyone call teaching a lesson 'lesson planning'

Well, do you plan lessons you don't teach then?

winters, the practicalities are absolutely fine if the school you work for has a reasonable marking policy. I don't think anyone is saying that marking should never be done, simply that it isn't the be all and end all of teaching and learning.

In an average lesson I spend less than half the time in front of the class talking to them as a group. The rest of the time I'm not resting and recovering from late night marking sessions, I'm providing one to one feedback, support and extension. Teaching classes is by far the most crucial aspect of the students' learning - way above and beyond marking books!

But they're different activities. One is done at home with my laptop and planner, the other is done at school in front of a class. If I stay up all night planning (or marking), then I won't be fit to teach.
The thing that has the biggest impact on the kids happens when I am in lessons, teaching them.

wintersbranches: I've already made it abundantly clear that I wouldn't usually speak to every student every lesson

It works like this: one lesson I might set up an extended writing task. I explain it, model it, assess understanding and set the students off. They write for a period of time. During that time I circulate and give feedback, usually giving priority to specific students who need feedback sooner than others. I might cover half the class. The following lesson the students complete a group task. During that time I invite specific students to my desk or I walk around again, this time giving feedback on the work completed yesterday. I then take feedback on the group task and assess. Etc.

Obviously there are many ways to give feedback and I don't rely on the same techniques day in and day out. I change things round to suit the task, students and time available.

If you don't plan your lessons or assess the work they complete then you aren't teaching good lessons.

It's a triangle.
One links in with the other.

Of course, but marking books at home is a fairly minimal part of assessment, for a maths teacher at least.

Surely marking is a way of letting the student know that what she/he does actually matters and that he she actually exists. At that age you feel in limbo with no personal feed back.

They have just started secondary school its a new world for them with new teachers, They need some reaction to their work in my opinion. Or is it that they do no homework, so the teacher already knows what is in their books, saw the student in class in the class and spoke to them about it?

I agree that AFL in lessons and verbal feedback are crucial. In my primary school, we are expected to do that and provide written feedback in addition.

However, to address the OP's point, it may be true that they are getting good quality verbal feedback. But I do believe teachers should show appreciation for a pupil's work by acknowledging it. In my school, we must acknowledge every piece of written work, even if just with a sticker or stamp. We are also expected to go through and highlight any significant errors (eg spelling).

The most onerous marking in primary is definitely written work in literacy. I don't envy secondary English teachers! However, I don't mind doing this as I feel it is the most valuable. At primary, children make many errors in their writing and they need these highlighting so they can improve. With the best will in the world, it isn't possible to get round all 30 pupils to give verbal feedback in depth.

Aargh! Now winters has mentioned 'triangulation'! Either SLT (senior leader) or governor!

And to the person up thread who talked about someone marking books and planning when off sick! That shouldn't be happening! Either you are well or off sick. The person covering should be planning and marking!

And yes, there should be something in their books. If you don't have time to write comments, just initialling the bottom of the page shows you e at least looked at the work.

And to the person up thread who talked about someone marking books and planning when off sick! That shouldn't be happening! Either you are well or off sick. The person covering should be planning and marking!

Yes to this! Lovely of her to do it but it's not expected and actually, working from home when you're ill can invalidate your case that you are ill so it's far from advisable.

And back to the point of the thread, what should be on the books is dictated not by what we all think about it (there is substantial disagreement along with areas of consensus here) but by what the school has published as their individual marking policy. There is more than one way to skin the proverbial cat. I suspect the teacher in this case isn't fulfilling the demands of the marking policy, but the only way to know is to ask for it.

Elegant

For what it's worth I do agree no one should be expected to mark and plan when off sick.

However my source of irritation here is that some are attempting to justify the unjustifiable.

We have all fallen behind in our marking, but rather than come up with elaborate and far fetched reasons for the sort of adequate feedback the teacher could have been giving the students for ten weeks it might be better to politely raise it with the teacher. Hopefully it will give them a kick up the bum.

I agree to a point winter (!) I think it's not just 'justifying' something we can't as we are not there... but trying to explain to those who don't know how many forms feedback can take.

Anyway, the thread would have been over ages ago if we just stuck to that:

OP: Is the marking ok or not?
THREAD: probably not, speak to her...

The end

"Books of students with SEN have to be marked every week minimum. blooming heck welshrainbow! I have classes where about 50% of the students have SEN! I would be constantly marking and have no time to Mumsnet do the ironing talk to my family!"

We have some whole classes that are SEN, usually only 10 ish students though and most other classes have 1-2 students with SEN at most. The extra marking in these books is mainly spelling corrections for key words etc rather than full on feedback that the students need to respond to. Still obviously very time consuming though.

just initialling the bottom of the page shows you e at least looked at the work.

God no. Doing extra work just so that you can prove that you have done some work is something teachers should be avoiding at all costs, given that we have so much actual work to be doing. Like 'verbal feedback given' stamps, this suggestion should be binned.

Kids know I've looked at their work because I wander around the class looking at their work and talking to them about it.

God no. Doing extra work just so that you can prove that you have done some work is something teachers should be avoiding at all costs, given that we have so much actual work to be doing. Like 'verbal feedback given' stamps, this suggestion should be binned.

I used to agree with this statement, but given our level of marking (primary, two colours plus something for the children to answer the next lesson in a third colour...), I've realised that 90% of my marking is for SLT or parents (what we have to do certainly does not help the children in proportion to the amount of work it generates).

Initialling work has saved me on a few occasions. But then, we are allowed NO work unmarked, so initialling is not creating extra work for me, but saving a lot of aggro when someone looks through my books!

And I, too hate verbal stamps, but when we have a book scrutiny, they actively look for them! And no, we can't say 'no' because then you are seen as a trouble maker. I need to keep my job, but be forced out due to a stamp.

Your SLT are shit.