To expect books to be marked at least once in ten weeks

[Cabbagesandcustard]

DD started secondary school at the beginning of Sept. In some subjects (geography, science) her teacher has not taken in / marked her book once since then. Is this normal / acceptable? Or should I be on the phone to the school having a moan?
School is rather a closed shop: they don't seem to encourage parent-teacher contact apart from at parents consultation evening and it can be hard to know who to contact. Year Head? Head of Dept?

wintersbranches: Sometimes, yes. Why not?

I think you're being ridiculous and I don't believe you do that for even a second.

I have taught for years and have NEVER known a teacher read essays, not write a thing on them, then amble round the class dictating the good and the bad and the ugly in every single one. Not once.

How can working every evening for 2 to 3 hours plus at the weekend be called good work life balance?

Always this fretting over book marking in this country - in Germany only tests and exams are marked, homework is checked in lessons - do they have worse outcomes? I think not

There's a massive disparity between primary and secondary school. It must be very confusing for parents.

It's bizarre that at primary lots of schools think that in depth marking is key, even when they can't necessarily read it. Part of the reason I don't do permanent teaching with young children.

I used to house share with a secondary school mfl teacher who was always flabbergasted by the level of marking and planning report writing I had to do. One of my schools had 12 page reports for each child. 12! It is ludicrous.

However, as ridiculous as primary marking is, I'd expect them to be marked at least every few weeks, assuming that it's a once a week lesson.

But maybe I'm brainwashed

wintersbranches: Right, so I am a liar

I don't think you're telling the truth about that, quite honestly.

You are telling me you sit there in the evening and you read thirty essays and remember in enough detail to tell thirty students the following day the good and bad points and they write it down? No I am not buying it sorry.

I believe you may skim through a couple and give general pointers. That's fine: I've done that.

But you remember Emily's essay, and Dylan's, and Daniels, and Nathan's, and Sam's, and Jonathan's, and James', and Charlie's, and Harrison's, and Christopher's, and Jordan's, and Liam's, and Harvey's and Mathews? You also remember Sarah's essay and Hannah's and Rachel's and Lucy's and Megan's and Charlotte's and Chloe's and Maddie's and Katie's and Rebecca's and Imogen's? You read them ALL and remembered them ALL and could correct spelling and guide on technical errors and tell them where they needed to improve?

No I don't believe you do that.

I teach secondary and we have to mark every 8 lessons . We teach KS3 twice a week so that's every 4 weeks. Work it out over 9 KS3 classes plus 2 KS4 groups (marked every 3 weeks) and I am marking 3 sets of books a week at 2+ hours a time... (used to have to mark every 6lessons which meant I was marking literally every night so that's a big improvement).

But yes, in 10 weeks books should have been marked. I have a class I only see once a week and I have marked their books and am marking them again on Fri.

Books of students with SEN have to be marked every week minimum. blooming heck welshrainbow! I have classes where about 50% of the students have SEN! I would be constantly marking and have no time to Mumsnet do the ironing talk to my family!

wintersbranches: Why would I read them at home if I am not marking them at home? As I have said, sometimes I spend 5-6 hours on a class set and provide detailed written feedback to every student. Sometimes I read their work as they write it and provide detailed (or less detailed) verbal feedback, which they then write down. It's not complicated.

Yes, so you mark in class? That's still written feedback.

wintersbranches: It is verbal feedback, which the students then write down, which is exactly what I said.

I don't have much to input on this as do not have dc yet but I found this quite interesting so just wanted to ask the following:

1- why are books being marked at all? Are these the books the kids write in during the lesson? I don't think we even had books in secondary school it was all folders and lost paper!

2- what is an SLT teacher? As someone upthread called winters

3- are teachers not marking all essays and homework anymore? I loved getting back my marked bits when I was a teen (proper swot lol!) I would have been really sad if my hw, essays and tests weren't being marked!

Totally agree with d270r0 .... Often a child might be absent on book taking in day/ at a music lesson or simply, when asked to hand in their book, still wanders off with it. Just this morning conv with a y7 student:
Child: Miss, I cant complete my MRIs. You didn't mark my book.
Me: Didn't I? Did you just get it back it now after handing it in last lesson?
Child: No it was in my bag.
Me: Could you tell me how I can mark it when I am sat in my living room and your book is in your bag at your house?
Child: Oh yeah

And that conversation happens often. As teachers we see approx 270 children a week; It's physically impossible to mark everything every week. Having said that, provided your child has been present, doesn't complete marked work in a book that stays in school and isn't like my example child above, I would expect it to be marked. Raise as a query with subject teacher rather than a complaint initially.

Oooh sorry I forgot one question:

To those saying you speak in class with the child to give their marks, can all the other children hear this?

RoseGoldHippie: When the feedback is formative (guidance on how to progress), yes, of course. Nothing to hide about that.

Teachers are expected to do to much these days, they plan and teach lessons, they dont have to time to mark work and the government isn't paying enough for them to do it. Like a previous poster said, whats the point? Why do children even need to know what they got right or wrong?

Schools just don't have enough money to mark work.

I'd raise it with the form tutor, asking her to check whether your child has been failing to hand her book in, since it doesn't exempt to have been marked. It's best to start out as a concerned parent rather than a complaining one!

If reply is no, then I'd start asking the individual subject teachers about assessments and grades, but also get an appointment with the Head of Year on parents evening to chat about the marking and feedback policy.

I used to teach a one-lesson-a-week subject, and all assessment results would be written in books just so that parents could see how things week going, even in weeks when books weren't marked. There could be good reasons for 10 weeks with no marking I suppose, but I definitely recommend questioning it.

Trifle, essentially what you are saying is that in every lesson you have the time to go around the whole class and read heir work and give them verbal feedback thus negating the need for any written feedback at all.

I do not believe this is possible or practical in an average sized classroom and certainly in all the schools I have worked in not marking books would eventually be a disciplinary matter.

It is not okay, no matter what people say, to let the children work and not to give feedback on it.

We have all I imagine sometimes fallen behind on our marking: that's okay. What isn't okay is attempting to justify it with claims of verbal feedback being given in class.

why do children even need to know what they got right or wrong

Why bother sending them to school at all on this logic!

wintersbranches: Except for the small point that I didn't say that at all

Re-read posts, please.

You have told me that you give verbal feedback with the work in front of you.
Apologies of course if I have misunderstood.

wintersbranches: Plus, as the Subject Lead in my school, I have responsibility for checking that my team are following the marking policy. I am hardly going to ignore it myself! What I am describing to you is completely in line with our school policy.

Trifle

Do you mark students books more than once a term?

That's really the question here isn't it?

wintersbranches: I said that is what I sometimes do. I also said I sometimes provide detailed written feedback, which takes me, on average, 5 hours. But feedback is feedback. I don't understand why you are so fixated on it being a) every lesson (it would never be every lesson in a secondary core subject) and b) in my handwriting rather than the student's. As long as the student knows and can articulate the strengths and development areas for their work, it makes no difference who writes it down. And all the writing in the world makes no difference if they don't know.

My dd is a secondary English teacher. She has just had 6 weeks off following an operation. She asked for pupils' books to be sent home every week so she could mark them. She also made detailed plans for every lesson she missed. No marking in 10 weeks seems wrong.

wintersbranches: Well, actually that wasn't the question. If you would like an answer to that question, that's fine: yes.