Aibu to expect people to help themselves in their own lives?

[Lazymazy1]

Have wanted to be a social worker for many years, have a degree and was looking to do a MSc.
However, doing voluntary work with a family who are in a very chaotic position, who won't help themselves, ie getting pregnant again whilst effectively homeless. Not taking control of things which will make a big difference in their current situation.

It isn't a case of can't, but won't help themselves, perhaps ingrained.

Am I being unreasonable ? Or are there good reasons why people just won't help themselves?

I don't think social work is for you

Goodstuff - there's a big difference between setting firm boundaries and being judgemental. I'm not sure why you think insisting that kids do their homework is the same as being judgemental.

I'm not a social worker but I have worked in a similar role before. I have found it frustrating when people won't help themselves or make the same mistakes over and over, but I've never thought of them as undeserving of my help or judged them for having chaotic lives. If you can't see the difference then you shouldn't be a social worker.

And Welsh is absolutely right. No one has ever made real, meaningful change from being lectured and told what to do.

Thanks Jess
Great post Welsh

It helps to remember that nobody chooses to be unhappy. If they could see their way to better decisions, they would! Once you fundamentally accept that, it is easier to start to understand some of the reasoning. For whatever reason, they can't or don't see a way to do anything differently, or for them it's not an option, or there are deep-seated issues that might be causing self-destructive behaviour (like not feeling they deserve to be happy, etc). And it doesn't matter how clearly you can see things that they ought to do/ought not to do, because they aren't in the right position to make those choices. You are seeing the choices from a very different background and set of experiences and knowledge of outcomes and sense of self and a thousand other things. They are not, and I think you have to be able to accept that you don't/can't know what is behind their thinking, but can only assume that if there were ready and able to make another choice, they would. You have to believe that it might be possible at another time, and to keep working with them to get them to the point where they can and do.

Jess here's a link for ammunition

www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/budget_pie_ukgs.php

You say nobody chooses to be unhappy, but people do choose to make decisions which make them happy but negatively impact on others.

"People who are/do x y z are feckless and we shouldn't be helping them"

"I was x y z and with help I turned it around"

"Oh not you, those others"

"People in situation x y z got there through their own fault"

"I was in situation x y z and it happened because…"

"Oh I didn't mean you, I meant those others"

yes but those people aren't really happy either then. I don't think someone who is negatively impacting someone else, even if they are totally unaware of it, is really happy, because part of being happy includes having meaningful relationships and being aware of your effect on others.

It doesn't mean that the decisions are good ones, and it's not an excuse for them, but it's a way to start understanding/accepting where the person is at.

"People in situation x y z should just do a b c"

"I'm in that situation and I can't do a b c because…"

"Oh well not you, that's understandable, but those others, there's no reason why they can't"

Id consider a career change OP

Crotchet - I think that is naive. There are certainly a significant number of people around who are not concerned about the impact of their behaviour on others. It's no good saying 'oh they are not really happy'

Yes user
The government being a prime example

But they're not. It doesn't mean that what they're doing is right, but it means that for some reason, they don't know how to make better choices at the time, and you can have a little compassion for them that way, which makes it easier to deal with them. I find it can be helpful for me, anyway.

It is also important to know that a lot of people find it hard to know/say/explain some of the real underlying reasons for things. So when solutions are offered, and they reject everything for what seems like spurious reasons, actually it might be that they are trying to communicate something quite different, and by taking it at face value, you aren't going to ever be in the same place. The more you can stop and try to figure out what they might really be meaning/needing/wanting, despite what they are saying, the easier it can be to help them get to a place where they can make different choices. Otherwise you are just always at cross purposes.

OP, might be a good topic to think about for your interview actually. I was directly asked in interview for my MA in SW what my prejudices were...it was, erm, uncomfortable. We were challenged repeatedly on the course about this and when I first started, we were given a list of service user groups we felt we could not work with. I put a cross next to paedophiles. By the end of the course, when presented with the list, I uncrossed it. I can and do work with people who have committed SO against children now - that shows how much my understanding has grown and my professional development.

Whatever you do, don't go in there proclaiming you want to help people. Whilst there is a lot of work based around help, SW is tough, you are confined by laws and predominantly my job is around problem solving. You need to be resilient, analytical, empathetic and determined - the course will help with that. Have you shadowed any SWs? Also, don't rule out adults SW, most talk is of children and family, but with The Care Act now in force my LA is employing constantly. Might be something worth thinking about if you really want to pursue SW.

PS absolutely love my job.

Portia - indeed, whether you agree with him or not I don't think you could argue that IDS came up with his reforms because he was deeply unhappy and didn't know it! He did what he thinks is the best in the situation, though it has a negative impact on others. He is not unhappy about that though because he thinks that overall the benefits are greater than the costs.

Same as the family having a loud party all night who don't care about the neighbours being disturbed aren't doing it because they are unhappy they are doing it because they don't care about the impact on others.

I think sometimes it is hard for people who are very empathic to realise that there are some people out there who don't give that much of a shit about others.

Actually, I think you sound very sensible, OP. It's a shame we can't have more like you, requiring folk to take responsibility rather than the museli-munching, dangly earring-ed, frizzy haired bleeding heart ones I experienced when I was in criminal defence for 7 years.

It's not that people are doing it necessarily because they're unhappy. But more that if you can have compassion for someone who isn't happy and who may have what seems to you some weird misguided way of thinking that something is the best choice when you feel it isn't, it makes it easier to work towards changing things. It's more something you can change in your own head, in order to more effectively deal with people. It's not excusing their choices.

Don't become a social worker. The one thing you have to do as a SW is to "start where the person is, not where you might like them to be."

I was one for 30 years - you would not last 5 minutes if you cannot do this.

iced. Yep, good point. I was an alcoholic in pretty much sole charge of a newborn. I couldn't stop drinking at that point, and Dad was deemed unfit due to his own issues. If you are going to judge, then you absolutely would have judged me - and I wouldn't blame you. But without support and encouragement, I may not have changed.

And I still judge. I saw a couple on the train the other day giving their toddler Mountain Dew to drink. In my head, I was thinking "How fucking stupid". But then I recall how I used to get on trains with DS in a sling having drunk a quarter bottle of vodka. So - unless you are a perfect human being, at least check yourself when you internally or externally criticise others. Sometimes, it's almost a reflex, but the important thing is understanding when, why and how we're doing it.

And this does not mean you have to agree with them or to approve of their behaviour; or that you cannot hep to move them on to a more responsible frame of mind. But you have to start by listening and move on from there.

Yes but IDS never mentioned unclaimed benefits

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/11/big-benefits-myth-tories-half-families-low-incomes-not-claiming-welfare

Portia, I had my severely disabled daughter when I was 21 and I received such terrible attitudes from health and social care professionals despite having a nice/normal home, being married, having a job and later a degree (ffs) my daughter's earlier notes say my daughter was being cared for by a neurotic young mum who carried her around too much as I was ocd about her getting dirty
So even with no other mitigating circumstances they may still not get it
And yes, do another career op

Quite enlightening this thread though. Same ppl who can't cope with disabilities judging yet again.
Slow clap

owlady Sorry to hear about your dd. and yes I agree with all you say