To be so angry with nursery

[Rockingaround]

Hi all,
Not sure what to do, I only know that I'm so angry but not sure if I'm overreacting.

DS just turned 4 last weekend. I picked DS from his nursery (within primary school) yesterday. He started in September after being at pre school, his session is 8.45-11.45. His former and current teachers have said he's a really good boy, good at listening and following the rules etc

Anyway, at pick-up he was balling his eyes out, snotty, gasping - in a right state, in all honesty I have never seen him this upset.

One of the nursery staff said " We were making biscuits and none of the children ate a smartie except for DS so Miss X has decided he is not allowed a biscuit because of it".

After DS had calmed down he told me he'd eaten a smartie. They told him he wasn't allowed to eat it but he carried on making his biscuit. Only at the end of the session when they were filling out the biscuits did they say he wasn't allowed to take his home because he'd eaten a smartie. I asked if they'd warned him that would happen if he ate a smartie and he said no.

I couldn't speak to them at that moment as I was so angry, I'm thinking g of writing a letter....? What would you do?

I'm doing his birthday party today but I'll check back in later. Thank you

[fingles]

Surely the sensible thing for them to do would have been to give each child their own share of the smarties (which I am presuming were the biscuit decoration)? If the child then disobeyed and ate their smarties, they would be punished at the end of the day by receiving a smarties-less cookie, which would link cause and effect quite neatly.

[YelloDraw]

And the haribo 'experiment' is an advert for Haribo ffs!!

Yes, but the 'one square of chocolate now, or a whole bar later" experiment about deferred gratification and development is a well known study

[TeacherBob]

I'd be absolutely fuming - petty idiots ......... I know people say it's only a biscuit and he'll get over it etc etc, but that poor kid felt devastation at the time and was completely distraught

Good, it means he has learned his lesson and it won't happen again.

Or would you prefer a consequence that didn't have an impact on the child and thus wouldn't change anything?

[Isitadoubleentendre]

I'd be absolutely fuming - petty idiots ......... I know people say it's only a biscuit and he'll get over it etc etc, but that poor kid felt devastation at the time and was completely distraught - they obviously didn't explain properly beforehand and it's hard for kids to not pinch a smartie when it's staring them in the face - rotten beggars ...... I'd go in and tear a strip off them - shame it's too late for your poor ds now but they need to be told

'Tear a strip off them'? You would feel right at home on that #teangobblegobble page serial! Why does anyone need to tear a strip off anyone? Calm down.

[TyneTeas]

I agree that not being allowed to take home the biscuit may be a bit harsh and a bit too far removed from the act.

But I don't think it matters quite so much whether he knew the precise consequence of eating it if he knew he wasn't meant to eat it.

If he knew he shouldn't do something then the point is he shouldn't do it.

There are a lot of things I don't do because they are the wrong thing, not because I have considered the potential sanction and decided I'm not bothered if I get a fine, points on my licence etc. I may not know the precise sanction in advance but I know I shouldn't be doing it and why.

My dd would sometimes ask when told to do it not to do something what would happen if she didn't or did. I wouldn't really want at that age to get into a position where they only do the right thing if the sanction is bad enough not to be worth it

[TeacherBob]

doubleentendre

Of course there is a need to tear a strip off the teacher.
I mean, she gave him a rule and consequence and then followed through on it. How dare she!

[insancerre]

Just leaving this here

[arethereanyleftatall]

I so agree with the poster who said you shouldn't change your response if a child (or even adult) cries.
I can't stand crying to get what you want, whether it's a 4 year old or 30 year old.

[MagicMarkers]

I think you're overreacting OP. Maybe he's learnt a lesson about following instructions.

Four is old enough to understand that he shouldn't have done it. He's not two.

[youarenotkiddingme]

Children given smarties to decorate biscuit - child eats smartie - less for biscuit.

Natural consequence.

I think deciding later on he can't have it was OTT.

However, it's pertinent to remember everyone has different standards and expectations. Also consider what if all the children are a smartie.

So although, imo, it was a total over reaction your DS has learnt that actions have consequences - which isn't a bad lesson to learn.

I'd speak to nursery and say your Ds was upset because he wasn't warned he'd not get his biscuit - that it maybe worthwhile reviewing their policy and perhaps remove child from situation rather than punish later on after the fact.

[ThatsWotSheSaid]

Young children could not be expected to have the self control for delayed gratification but they can understand that the have to follow rules. So if you said 'you can eat the smarties now or have the whole buiscuit later' some might choose the smarties now but if you say 'don't eat the smarties' IME most 4 year olds would listen - it's the fear of being in the wrong and upsetting the adult and/or being told off in front of peers that motivates them to behave not really the consequence in that situation. However, your DS is only just turned four and he may not have understood the rules or simply thought he could get way with it. Either of which isnt that bad. Its a heavy handed thing for them to do. I make face biscuits with children all the time and I would never not let them eat it. Its just mean.

[MyDarlingWhatIfYouFly]

Sorry, top paragraph was a quote. Bold doesn't seem to work on my phone

[NightWanderer]

It's far too harsh. I agree the natural consequence would be that he had a cookie without a smartie if he already ate his. It's heavy handed to take the cookie away too. I work with young kids and I would never be that mean.

[CancellyMcChequeface]

I think the absolute first rule of parenting/teaching is to follow through on your punishments. Even if as soon as you've said it, you're thinking 'fuck, that was way too harsh'.

I completely disagree with this. If a punishment isn't too harsh, you absolutely shouldn't go back on it because a child is upset or complaining. But if you realise it's too harsh, you're realising that you made a mistake - usually out of anger or frustration.

Following through with something you know to be wrong is unfair on a child and teaches them that adult authority is arbitrarily punitive. Explaining that you said x because you were feeling angry but you now think that it was the wrong decision and the consequence should be y instead is better parenting, I think.

Most people have said things they didn't mean in frustration, like: 'Your room is still untidy, that's it, if you don't tidy up right now I'm cancelling Christmas!' It's better not to make those kind of unfair threats at all, but if you do, the answer isn't to cancel Christmas because you said you would and you don't want to be flaky about consequences!

[elodie2000]

4 is plenty old enough to follow instructions as simple as this.

He will hopefully realise that if he's asked not to do something and he does it anyway, he will end up losing out. unless of course you kick up a fuss and completely undermine the nursery staff's efforts to teach him to follow instructions.

[NeedsAsockamnesty]

I'm all for backing up teachers and for kids following rules but I think using a delayed gratification technique on under 7's is a bit like sticking a £50 note on your back and expecting not to be mugged whilst stood in the middle of St pauls estate

[Idefix]

As others have said the natural consequence would have been to not have a smartie to decorate the cookie with, as you have eaten it. It seems to be heavy handed and ill thought out. I think it would be okay to discuss these views with the teacher, even if they are unlikely to agree.

[pictish]

Mean and petty as fuck.

[Trifleorbust]

I agree that you shouldn't kick up a big fuss about this, tbh. Yes, the punishment was a little harsh but it is their call. Your DS did not follow instructions and was given a consequence. He may learn from it.

[Mary21]

Have you seen secret lives of 4 year olds. They frequently use delayed gratification excercises

[CattyMcCatface]

I agree with fingles he should have been allowed a biscuit still but without the Smartie, and told that at the time he was making it. Poor little thing, he is still only 4 - a baby.

[AdelindSchade]

Yes mean and excessive. Poor wee soul.

[headinhands]

Totally unnecessary. And humiliating. He didn't need that sort of admonishment for eating a smartie. (When I make biscuits with kids I try to have extra so we can nibble while we cook. It's part of cooking isn't it so I don't think he's destined for a life of crime if he isn't punished harshly.

OP I would want to follow it up with Nursery but I would probably lose my shit. Maybe a letter.

I hope he has a lovely party with a tonne of smarties.

[RepentAtLeisure]

Surely his punishment would have been taking home a plain biscuit? (Assuming they were topping them with one smartie.) It seems very harsh to me, and ultimately pointless because he's four and by next month will have forgotten that 'lesson'.