To be so angry with nursery

[Rockingaround]

Hi all,
Not sure what to do, I only know that I'm so angry but not sure if I'm overreacting.

DS just turned 4 last weekend. I picked DS from his nursery (within primary school) yesterday. He started in September after being at pre school, his session is 8.45-11.45. His former and current teachers have said he's a really good boy, good at listening and following the rules etc

Anyway, at pick-up he was balling his eyes out, snotty, gasping - in a right state, in all honesty I have never seen him this upset.

One of the nursery staff said " We were making biscuits and none of the children ate a smartie except for DS so Miss X has decided he is not allowed a biscuit because of it".

After DS had calmed down he told me he'd eaten a smartie. They told him he wasn't allowed to eat it but he carried on making his biscuit. Only at the end of the session when they were filling out the biscuits did they say he wasn't allowed to take his home because he'd eaten a smartie. I asked if they'd warned him that would happen if he ate a smartie and he said no.

I couldn't speak to them at that moment as I was so angry, I'm thinking g of writing a letter....? What would you do?

I'm doing his birthday party today but I'll check back in later. Thank you

[grannytomine]

Just to make it clear for you TeacherBob, so glad I home schooled till they were 9, wish I had waited till senior school but at least I saved them some bullying by petty adults.

[TeacherBob]

TeacherBob, OP says:

"he told me he'd eaten a smartie. They told him he wasn't allowed to eat it but he carried on making his biscuit. Only at the end of the session when they were filling out the biscuits did they say he wasn't allowed to take his home because he'd eaten a smartie. I asked if they'd warned him that would happen if he ate a smartie and he said no."

That reads to me as if he was given the consequence well after eating the smartie

------

No, the OP is saying she only knows that he wasn't warned because her 4yo said he wasn't.

That doesn't mean it is a fact.

If a 4 yo is so young that he shouldn't have consequences as prescribed, then i would suggest he is too young to be able to recall ordering of a day's events.
Or are you suggesting he can order days events but not understand simply consequences?

[Serialweightwatcher]

TeacherBob not getting into this because it's boring and not wanting to take away from OP's thread - we all have our own opinions which is what makes Mumsnet a good place to ask a question - I answered it in the way I believed I would deal with it ... you don't have to agree with it, as I don't agree with you but don't be rude please - same goes for isitadoubleentendre - there is no need

[TeacherBob]

Just to make it clear for you TeacherBob, so glad I home schooled till they were 9, wish I had waited till senior school but at least I saved them some bullying by petty adults.

Putting rules in place doesn't make you a bully.

Defending people breaking rules makes you a wally.

[TeacherBob]

TeacherBob not getting into this because it's boring and not wanting to take away from OP's thread - we all have our own opinions which is what makes Mumsnet a good place to ask a question - I answered it in the way I believed I would deal with it ... you don't have to agree with it, as I don't agree with you but don't be rude please - same goes for isitadoubleentendre - there is no need

WTF, how did this become my fault? I didn't quote you or respond to you.
I replied to someone else.
You then made it about me and dragged it out over several posts

[Trifleorbust]

I honestly don't think it's that important whether he knew the consequence beforehand. If it was forty lashes I would think differently, but the punishment (whilst on the harsh side) is losing a biscuit. Hardly the end of the world. What matters more is whether the instruction was given in such a way that the boy understood it clearly, and he did. So he got upset even though he knew he had been naughty and done what he wasn't supposed to do.

I feel sorry for him because he is only 4, but next time he won't eat the smartie!

[elodie2000]

Shteak
Really?
Should we now refrain from using the term 'good' to describe a child's behaviour?
FFS

[elodie2000]

serial - TeacherBob not getting into this because it's boring and not wanting to take away from OP's thread
You just did...

[WouldHave]

TeacherBob, you're moving the goalposts. You said the OP hadn't suggested her child was given the consequence at the end of the session. When the relevant words were quoted to you, you shifted to saying we don't know if that is correct. Of course we don't, we weren't there - but then nor were you, I assume; and I did point out that for the purposes of this discussion we need to work on the facts as given. It is also to an extent supported by the account of what the nursery worker said, and also the fact that the child was so upset; it's a fair bet that if he knew what the consequence would be and deliberately decided to take the risk, he'd have been more resigned to his fate.

[Rachel0Greep]

OP, I hope that he has a great party. I wouldn't get into writing letters etc to the nursery. Maybe a quick word to establish what happened, and to figure out why he got upset to the extent described.

[slenderisthenight]

not a nursery i'd be using.

[TeacherBob]

TeacherBob, you're moving the goalposts. You said the OP hadn't suggested her child was given the consequence at the end of the session. When the relevant words were quoted to you, you shifted to saying we don't know if that is correct.

No I didn't. You are misrepresnting to fit your argument. You said mum said that happened. She didn't. The kid did.

Of course we don't, we weren't there - but then nor were you, I assume; and I did point out that for the purposes of this discussion we need to work on the facts as given.

The mum doesnt know the facts, because instead of talking to the teacher, she went running to social media. That said, I think it is extremely unlikely that the teacher just decided to make up a rule at the end of a session.

It is also to an extent supported by the account of what the nursery worker said, and also the fact that the child was so upset; it's a fair bet that if he knew what the consequence would be and deliberately decided to take the risk, he'd have been more resigned to his fate.

Nope, that just tells us, if we look at inference, that the child is not so used to being told no.
There is nothing in the post to suggest he didn't know what was going to happen. But the fact the parent is complaining about it here is a good indication that she doesn't always respect the rules.
If a child can't follow a simple rule now and it is not addressed, then it will only get worse.

[Pollyanna9]

Jesus, "Child eats smartie whilst making smartie cookies" - these lot at the group need to get a grip! I'd eat them if I was making smartie cookies and I'm 48!!

I CANNOT believe he was the ONLY one who ate one. Ridiculous.

They should have said something way more realistic like "Please kids, don't eat loads of smarties because we'll have none left for the cookies" and then just let them enjoy the process and maybe eat a couple along the way - hardly a serious issue and for goodness sakes, expecting them not to eat a single one is excessive for their ages.

Give me strength (the nursery, not the OP or her child!).

[elodie2000]

Sadly, I suspect that a whole F'ing lesson plan was written to go alongside this 'fun' activity for the 4 year olds in this boy's class.

They were indeed practicing life skills such as teamwork, sharing, following instructions. sequencing, practical dexterity, timing, delayed gratification, independence, healthy (and unhealthy) eating etc etc...

The whole system makes even making biscuits bloody miserable.

[liz70]

People have been failing to follow "simple rules" throughout human history, despite being subject to punishments of varying degrees of severity and savagery. In fact, as, a general rule of thumb, the more dire and fearsome the punishments, the more violent and poorly behaved people tend to be. And yes, I know that this thread is about a child and a biscuit, but the principle is still the same. Punishment does not work. And there is definitely no place for such "punishment" in a nursery - which we call playgroup here (my DDs went to them till they were 5 and started school), certainly not over a sweet and a biscuit. Sending a just turned 4 year old hysterical and sobbing over something so small.. but hey, roolz is roolz, eh?

[elodie2000]

and, just to add... This is not the fault of the nursery/school.

[TeacherBob]

It is not a punishment, it is a consequence

[diddl]

"It is not a punishment, it is a consequence"

Surely the consequence is one less smartie for him to put on his biscuit?

[TeacherBob]

No, the consequence is whatever consequence is laid out at the start.

[liz70]

No, a consequence would be taking home a Smartieless biscuit because the child had already eaten the Smartie. Depriving a small child of the biscuit altogether, causing them to become extremely upset, is a punishment. It causes the child to suffer unnecessarily, and I'd put money on it not stopping the same thing happening again.

[Trifleorbust]

It's a punishment. He did what he was told not to do. Nursery and school staff cannot educate and safeguard large groups of children if those children are able to do as they please. Whether you call it a consequence, a sanction or a punishment makes no difference . By all means, be a gentle parent but don't expect the same from professionals because you will be disappointed!

[TeacherBob]

Yeah you are wrong.

If the teacher says 'anyone eating a sweet won't take a biscuit home' then the consequence isn't allowing them to take the biscuit.

Regardless of how upset he gets, that is still the consequence.

Seems people have issues with the fact he got upset. He made the choice, he deals with the consequence.
Or just give in and let him see that making a fuss will get him what he wants?

[ThroughThickAndThin01]

I agree with you TeacherBob

[insancerre]

I agree with teacherbob too
Children get upset, its totally normal

[kali110]

Yes a harsh punishment, bit too harsh i think, but 'tear a strip off the teacher,' 'take her job' what happened to having a rational And reasoned conversation?