Dog pissing and shitting over everything. AIBU to PTS?

[ImportSave]

I've just caught my dog pissing all over a fairly new side table. He stood and did it right in front of me, despite being less than two feet from access to the garden. I chased him out into the garden and cleaned it up,only to find he'd crapped in the kitchen without me knowing about it. I've shut him in the (tiled) kitchen, where he's howling and barking to be let out. He's ruined an expensive carpet through this.

Not to drip feed, he's about 17, a small crossbred who has free access to the outside and is walked daily. The vet has checked him several times and can find no physical reason this. I've also cleaned the carpet/furniture with enzyme cleaner, bio soap power and have had it professionally cleaned. My house stinks. I have a niece who will soon be crawling and I can't have her over if she's going to be crawling in dog urine (or worse, poo.)

I'm honestly thinking about having him PTS. I've owned him since he was a tiny pup and it would probably break my heart to do it, but I can't take much more of this mess either. I'm sitting here trying to get some very important work done and all I can smell is piss. All I can hear is him howling because he's been shut in the one room with a floor he can't ruin.

AIBU?

I had my aged cat PTS for similar reasons, and vet confirmed dementia.

OFGS you lot, the poor dog is 17, get a grip. Somebody is suggesting you go back to housetraining this very old dog. Cannot believe that anybody is suggesting surgery and more treatment. He is 17!!!! Listen to pklme (poster above). Spoil him and then let him go!!

I'd lean towards PTS - awful situation to be in tho and you have my sympathy. 17 is a great age for a dog tho.

I think it could be purely old age and incontinents and it's really cruel and heartless to have the dog PTS because of it it's not the dogs fault they have lost control of their bladder you only PTS a dog if there is absolutely no other option and they are seriously ill not if they are otherwise healthy. I think you need another opinion off another vet because it does sound like there could possibly be medically wrong with the dog.

Our dog started doing this. He had dementia. He would get very distressed about the toileting. Very sad but kindest thing to do.

Midsummernight its comments like this that really annoy the heck of me.
If you are truly an animal lover you DO NOT let your pet suffer- regardless of age!
No one starts to think of PTS as an easy option!! What a stupid remark.

Well, you heard it here first, OP. You're basically on a par with someone smothering their grandma to save some cash if you don't let your aged, incontinent, obviously not very well dog have the complete run of the house, including carpeted areas, at the expense of having your family visit.

Dying laughing!

Has anyone mentioned crating? Then he can be in the same room but not pissing everywhere. It's bloody hard at this age, I had a cat PTS when he started yowling, dropped weight depicts tons of food and was incontinent.

Quality of life is all important: if he doesn't have this, yes, I would PTS.

The OP has had TWO vets look at the dog so I don't understand posters saying that she should get a second opinion.

I'd probably just PTS the dog. 17 is a grand age.

Was also going to suggest crating x

The OP isn't answering a lot of the questions though.

The dog is very old, that's true. If two vets have ruled out physical problems, then it could very well be related to dementia. People have asked if the dog shows any other symptoms, and what his general quality of life is like in his old age, but OP hasn't replied.

OP, is there anything else wrong with your dog that makes you think his health is declining? That he's struggling with old age? Or is it JUST this? (Which would be a very strange case)

This dog is 17, he's had a happy long life.
You can spoil him for a few days then have him pts now, get the vet to do it at home and let him fall asleep, or you can clean up shit for the next year whilst he gets worse and you get crosser, and then have him pts in a rush when there is some event. What would be the point in waiting?

Having him rehomed would be really cruel. And noone would take him.
House training an elderly dog with probable dementia? Good luck.

TheEternalForever But OP has already said that she's had two different vets look at her dog - and not just a physical exam either; she's had urine dips and blood tests done. How many times is she supposed to haul him round to the vets, being poked and prodded before someone comes to the - entirely likely - conclusion that he's old and coming to the end of his life?

I also work with dogs, on a voluntary basis. I found your post unusual in that it was so highly emotive - throwing the dog on the table. I've never seen a vet behave this way with an animal that was about to be PTS. If that's your experience then I'd recommend changing vet to someone with more care and compassion. I also found it unusual because every single person I've met who works with animals would say the same thing: that if the animal is confused and starting to suffer an impaired and deteriorating quality of life which cannot be addressed, then the responsible thing to do is PTS.

if the animal is confused and starting to suffer an impaired and deteriorating quality of life

But has the OP said that? It seems like the toileting issue is the only thing she's mentioned (forgive me if I've missed it)

No she hasn't - and I didn't say that she had. But based on what the OP has said and the age of the dog, this is a possibility.

Some people seem to be overlooking the fact that 17 is very old for a dog. Age-related issues are to be expected and there may come a time when these issues mean that PTS needs to be considered.

At that age it's probably dementia. He can't help it and it won't stop.

OP, this must be very hard to read. Does he show any other signs of distress or confusion? Did the article on cognitive disfunction ring any bells?
Hope you can come back OP but understand if this thread is too much just now.

Dementia is a likely cause given his age, as is a weakening of those muscles. It's not your fault and not his and I don't think YABU at all to PTS. Quality of life matters and it sounds like this is impacting on him as well as you.

I am so saddened by the hard time people have given the OP here. Talk about beating someone when they're down.

Our old girl is diabetic and completely blind - she has been for a year. She's 15 years old.

Every day we feed and inject her with insulin, 12 hours apart.

Walks have to be carefully managed (they can decrease or increase blood glucose levels).

We test her blood at home to reduce her trips to the vet. We make sure we're with her to feed her and inject her on time, every single day, early mornings and late evenings, to keep her as healthy as we can.

She has cancer. She had a tumour removed in September and luckily bounced back from a major operation despite a heart murmur.

She has the very odd accident. Usually a wee on the floor or on her sofa from high blood sugar.

But she negotiates the garden with skill that you couldn't imagine from an animal who has no sight at all.

We've adapted games to play with her that rely on her other senses.

She loves her walks and is completely confident despite losing her sight. She is still happy, active and as healthy as she can be despite everything.

She is my best friend and I love the bones of her. I know she loves me and she's still very, very happy and contented.

But if dementia and/or extreme incontinence should set in, which it might, then we would do the right thing by her and us.

Just like ImportSave is thinking about with her dog.

To make this decision isn't because the dog is an inconvenience.

A dog that's incontinent to this degree at such an age does not have a good life, and neither does their owner.

I'm so sorry you're going through this ImportSave and for some of the horrible responses you've had.

Take him to a different vet to see if there is something simple that's been missed. And after that, if you feel it's time to say goodbye to him, then do that for him with a clear conscience.

Sorry I've just finished work and haven't had chance to read the thread.

I'll catch up on it now.

The dog is either ill or very unhappy.
17 year old dogs are very rare, he's VERY aged.
You say you work ft and study pt, he must be left alone a lot then? You say he gets walked 3 x a day for 20-30 minutes, yet his behaviour is telling a different story.
Old dogs need extra care and compassion but it sounds like you're out of both tbh

Empathy and sympathy for the old dog required. Probably is senility setting in, also could be the start of the same loss of nervous signals that result in dogs losing their use of back legs - ie. he can't feel so well if he needs to go. Our 11 year old spaniel is like this, though not with poo yet, only wee. We restrict his access to the living room and take him out every three hours. Have also invested in a waterproof padded bed for him that we can just spray with anti bac and wipe down. I'd never have a dog killed who wasn't in real pain, no more than I would a human.

I fucking hate 'crating'. It's like they're a toy you're putting away in its box when you can't be bothered to train them/give them enough company that they won't misbehave (not applicable here though).
In this instance, caging him basically means he'll just be sitting in his own wee and poo getting amonia burns instead of getting it on your floor (where, you could put newspaper). For an old dog who's upset by being shut out in the kitchen, suddenly being shoved in a cage would be obviously cruel.

Our 15 year old dog had bowel incontinence for 6 months but seemed otherwise fine.

We were losing patience with him (it's not funny with babies and toddlers) and then feeling guilty.

The vet could find nothing wrong BUT advised us to PTS because he understood how difficult it was with young children and a health hazard.

The dog was also ageing and you could see him getting increasingly doddery by the day, stumbling, tripping over his paws, struggling to get up and while he enjoyed walks he was very slow.

Anyway the vet said that the incontinence was a sign that all the nerves in the back were beginning to go and that he would need to be PTS in a few months time anyway and that the deterioration would be unpleasant for the children to see and the dog himself.

He had a lovely death for want of a better word though I still cry when I think about it and how he wagged his tail to the last. We fed him cheese and he quietly went to sleep while being cuddled.

Heartbreaking but they aren't human and you don't want to end up resenting him. 17 is a cracking age xx

i feel the same about crating. bloody hate it.

Forgot to say, he had 2 different courses of steroids which didn't help. We had a cruising baby and a toddler.

When the nerves go completely it is apparently really distressing to see and very graphic. But you shouldn't have to put up with non stop urine & faeces and you are not heartless if you PTS.

I didn't want to see my beautiful boy get progressively worse and neither did I want my children subjected to faeces all over the carpet and hanging out of his backside. He had previously been incredibly clean & reliable in the department.