To feel uncomfortable about finances?

[whyohwhydoibother]

Ok. Bit of a long one here ladies (and gentlemen), so I apologise. Also, any monetary figures are not intended as a stealth boast, but more as a perspective to our situation. We recognise that we are incredibly fortunate to be in the situation we are.

I am the breadwinner for our house. Our DC is under 1, and my partner stays home to take care of them. For background, we both have fairly demanding careers which can be affected by time off, however in my current job I earn 3 times as much as my partner.

We decided for economic and various other complicated reasons that I would go back to work after my paid maternity leave finished, and my partner would take the following 6-9 months unpaid leave. So far so good, I love my job, it's very rewarding, and I think is helping me to recover from post natal depression/anxiety.

My problem comes with our finances. Before my partner went on leave, we discussed our outgoings, and agreed a figure for all of his costs, plus 'buffer'. He also gets all of the agreed food budget. For reference, this is equivalent to £1500 a month (£1000 of 'his' money - mostly pre-relationship debts - and £500 a month for food).

For the last 3 months, an average of £1500 extra a month has been taken out of the savings account to pay his credit card. He says this is 'living expenses' which seems to include any coffees, house items or extras that he doesn't deem as being directly related to him. I feel very uncomfortable about this, as I thought our agreed budget covered these extras, as when I buy them, I take them out of 'my' money (budgeted at £1000 a month).

I am in the fortunate position of having none of my own debts to pay, so the budget was agreed to be strictly equitable, however I rarely spend it, and any leftovers are put into the joint savings account. In addition, I tend to arrange a pre-planned food delivery service for myself, which I pay for out of my own budget, not the family food money. He is usually only buying for himself and our baby.

When I try to discuss this matter, my partner gets very defensive, and we can end up arguing. I don't believe he's hiding or taking extra money, as I have access to all of his accounts, however it's the general attitude towards addressing my concerns I can't understand. We are trying to invest as much as we can, so we can ultimately have a choice about what jobs we take, but I end up feeling my partner is spending to 'compensate' for taking time off work.

So as not to drip feed, when we initially set up home together, I paid off roughly £30000 of his debt from my own savings, to allow us to get an investment mortgage, which he wants to decrease at £1000 per month he's not working, in addition to his other outgoings. I am also funding a nanny and the cost of various courses for him to be able to alter his career, and likely allow him to remain close to home once his parental leave ends (the alternative could be him working 1500 miles away), which will work out to around £10000.

Is this unreasonable? Am I being fair in expressing concern about the level of spending? Or do I have to accept that this is just the level of expense associated with supporting a family of two adults and one child?

I think a few people on the thread have forgotten the concept of 'family money' that is so often used in defence of female posters. The OP's partner is definitely over-spending, but is he not spending joint money, rather than being 'funded'?

wow so you are basically paying all his debts which he accumulated before you and paying him the equivalent of his lost salary just because you feel guilty that your child was unplanned?

How much have you spent on his debts so far?
He must be laughing all the way to the bank.

I find your OP a little confusing sorry but I can tell you what I do (the amounts/ set-up is quite similar).

I transfer £1050 into the joint account each month - that covers mortgage, bills etc. I pay the £600 nursery fee (2 days a week) out of my own account.

DH has the money he earns working those 2 days (he makes about 10k a year) plus he can spend whatever he wants on the joint credit card. It's usually about £1500 a month which includes food. I pay the credit card and pay for anything else that crops up - repairs, work to the house, holidays etc.

And I agree with Trifle - I think of it as all joint money.

I would normally be all for family money but he has a shocking amount of debt. I think he needs to clear that himself and then you can sort out joint accounts etc.

Not married, but living in a country that after a short period of co-residence you're entitled to a 50:50 split.

The pre-existing debts weren't a surprise, he was paying them back over a long period, and I suppose it made more sense for me to save him the interest on them, as I had the cash. He was then meant to pay me back from his earnings, but obviously that stopped with his leave!

I didn't go into this with my eyes closed (I hope!) - I wanted a stable home for my child, which I could do on my own, but having 2 parents is a bonus. He's an awesome father, really hands on and natural, so no complaints there.

When I really think about it, it's not the amount of money that's the issue - you can't buy happiness, so it's all just transient anyway - it's that I feel he doesn't think I have any right to question what family money is spent on. If I do, it's somehow a personal attack. It's probably all to do with him feeling emasculated by the traditional role reversals, but it's just frustrating.

Interestingly, I have a colleague in almost exactly the same situation, who says she's having very similar arguments with her partner..

I have so far counted these

£30,000 to pay off pre relationship debts
£1500 X 3 months = £4500 to pay off pre relationship debts
£7000 - to pay off pre relationship motor vehicle
£41,500 just to pay off his pre relationship debts.

wow

Obviously you have as much right to question what family money is spent on as he has to spend it...but do you really believe he has a right to spend it? I didn't pick that up from your OP if I am honest.

Trifle while I agree about family money in principle, as someone who is the main wage earner it can be tough to see it that way - took me about 4 years into my marriage.

And for it to be family money, surely both parties have to agree on terms - it only works when both agree on what work the other is doing and that it is valuable, both have similar ideas about debt and spending, there is agreement about what to do about any debts or savings accrued before the partnership and so on. It's probably easier to do, if like my parents, you don't actually have any money to fall out over.

For example I was quite happy seeing our income as 'family money', DH found it a struggle to see his savings as 'family money' and I definitely found it hard to see that the house I'd bought without any input from him and he's never contributed to the mortgage was his house too. It doesn't happen overnight even in equal couples even though it's the law of Mumsnet.

For the OP, it might be 'family money' but frankly it ceases to be so if one member is taking the piss.

I think you're getting a bit lost in all the detail.

What you're really asking is "do I have the right to tell my partner how much he is allowed to spend out of the family money"

I think it's quite a tough question actually.

Yeah trifle, that's probably where my need to post comes from! I do feel that sometimes I'm working to allow him to have all the choices he wants. 90% of the time it's fine, because I can see what an amazing job he does with our DC, and how I don't have to really worry about a lot of the household stuff, but there's just that 10% where I'm sorting out the baby having just come in from work, not sitting down for another 2 hours, while he's watching another video on the internet, or playing games on his phone, that stings a bit..

Wolpertinger: I am not in disagreement that it is a difficult transition to make, particularly (if we are honest) for the higher earning partner or the one with more assets. I am also not in disagreement that the DP in this case sounds irresponsible with money. BUT the OP is benefiting from having a full-time SAHD for her child. And £500 a month as a total budget (excluding what he is spending to repay debt) seems unrealistic when it includes food and all 'normal' expenses outside bills. Her partner shouldn't be spending £1500 a month on god knows what, but he should be able to replace a rug, buy a train ticker or get a coffee when he fancies one.

that's one expensive relationship!!

I have no idea what he's spending his money on, but I survive on 1800 including all shopping, bills, mortgage, everything. 3000 a month no bills is staggering.

It's odd he doesn't want to discuss it with you at all. Those debts are suspicious too, but then I've got a suspicious mind. Also the need for a nanny as he doesn't work...what's he up to? I would suspect gambling or something for the previous debts and massive spending with nothing to show for it.

Very cynical here but dripfeeding re finances doesn't help.

OP, you said you would be happy to go it alone with unplanned DC. He said he wanted to be involved. Was that before or after the financial discussions? DC is under one and you looked after DC for 5 months, so from my reading OH has done around 7 months as SAHD with another 2/3 months to run. After which a nanny kicks in after he goes back to work/does further studies.

You have paid down his debts (student? or something more threatening?) by £30000 and now by £1000 pcm with £500 for casual expenses. You are already buying food and yet £1500 pcm is still coming out of the account? What is he doing online if not prepping courses to return to work? Does he still have a credit card? why?

Frank talk with him, I think. And put your salary into your own account with a feed to the joint account. Presumably you're also paying the mortgage so which account does that come from? I would also be aware that if he runs up debt on the joint account you are also liable and your own financial status may go down if he's still running stuff up on credit cards.

You say if he doesn't do the extra training he may need to work 1500 miles away - trying to get my head round this. Oil rig worker? Arabist? or EFL teacher?

Red light warnings everywhere.

So there are issues with the division of work outside of your working hours as well? Yes, you need to press the reset button here. Sit him down, go through the finances and chores as a couple and agree some ground rules (realistic ones). Either that or leave him. I am not detecting much will to make the relationship work in your posts

I would want more detail and clarity on the spending.
For years we used quicken, now our bank web site has the features built in. ALL expenses are categorized. That way at the end of the month it's easily visable x amount was spent on fuel, y amount on internet/phone, z on vehicle insurance....
I'm use to generous numbers but I'm of the impression you want to know more about the discretionary spending.
Whatever you do approach it from a planning perspective (retirement one day) not a blaming "where have you spent the money" perspective

I'm the SAHP and if I was spunking £3000 a month on 'living costs' AFTER my husband had coughed up £40,000 of my debts, he would blow a fucking gasket and rightly so. Think of the money that would still be in your pocket if you'd never met this guy!

The relationship was so early you found the baby a surprise, but not so early you paid him £30,000? Christ alive, that's more money than I think I've ever transacted since adulthood.

Look, I find it hard to spend 'the family money'. I wish I found it a little easier. It's all me, not my DH - he wishes I'd spend more. But I like to be frugal and conservative with it. The very idea of spending £3000 a month is gobsmacking. I would be deeply ashamed at spending 'the family money' in that way - that money's for our kids, for our next house, for rainy day savings.

I'm not sure why people are being so harsh on you. Any partner of any gender has the right to be shocked if the other partner is frivolously spending 'the family money'. You can't rack up £3000 on clothes, shoes, meals out and I'd struggle to reach £500 a month on food for a family of four. It's going somewhere unnecessary and he needs to take a look at the statements and figure where to cut back.

Depends if you itnk his debts are his to cover out of his spends, or to be covered out of family money.

I do not think relationships work when you have unequal footings like this. He is clearly terrible with money and you are just going to resent him spending more than you.

I think for a harmonious life it should be (e.g. numbers)

We have 10,000 coming in per month.
We have to pay out [3,000] comprised of:

• Mortgage
• Bills
• DH debt

We want to save [3,000]

We want to spend [500] on food shopping.

That leaves £3,500 for personal spends. That is £1,750 each.

He sounds so unbelievably shit with money tho I'm not sure I would want him having access to any of my credit cards, or in fact his own!

Interestingly, I also have a dc under 1. I also went back to work after 5 months maternity leave. I am also the higher earner in my relationship and my husband gave up a 10 years career ( better paid than mine ) and took a part time job with less pay to be able to look after our child.
And no he doesn't believe in this traditional bollocks and would never get defensive if I question anything money related and neither would I if he questions my spending habit regardless of me bringing more money or not.

By being defensive and all this traditional bollocks your partner just wants you to carry on as things are.

It would have been better if you left this sum of money in trust for your child. Would he still have been with you if you didn't agree to pay off his debts?

Don't worry, the old debts have gone (unless you count the theoretical debt to me, which would only be more joint savings anyway), and I know what the current debts are - a few 'boy toys' that he has the choice to pay for or sell - hence setting an equal 'spending budget' each month.. I like the odd facial, he likes things that make loud noises!

I appreciate that we're in a very lucky income bracket, but it's a relatively new thing for both of us. I suppose I hoped that we could continue with our 'pre-loaded' spending, and actually save the difference, but the reality seems to be that you just expand to match the income!

How is he a hands on natural dad yet you have a full time nanny and he isn't working?!

How did he run up his debts in the first place? Are they credit card debts? What does he spend £1500 a month on? I'm all for joint finances - all our money goes in one pot and any debts are shared, but how can someone looking after a baby get through £1,500? He must have something to show for it - clothes, gadgets, music, books, baby equipment? It sounds like you are a saver (no debts) whereas he is a spender - not sure how you can reconcile this.

I think you have yourself a cocklodger there, OP. You've known him less than two years and you've paid him an awful lot of money so far. Are you sure that the country you live in would insist on a 50:50 financial split?

OK so you have other issues than the finances - you shouldn't be coming home to watch him watch video games currently he is not sounding like that great a dad

If he is SAHP then he needs time off. But you have come home from work - so do you.

How have you organized house work, cooking, cleaning, baby care in the evenings so it is equitable and you also get enjoyable time together? Or are you simply coming home to job number 2?

And yes you should be able to ask about any spend that isn't in the budget or is over a certain agreed cost. This cuts both ways - you should ask him if it's Ok for you to spend £xx on whatever item you want too. We have lots of joint conversations about how much we are going to spend on Christmas presents, when we will get the next bit of work on the house done, how much we should spend on a car/holiday, whether we are packing lunch or buying it etc etc. Most of these are just chit-chat rather than at the level of creating a spreadsheet and a budget.

How much of his spending money is going on debts and how much just he actually have to spend as he likes? My view is different if he has 1.5k a month, spends 500 on food and 900 on debt to if the latter figure is much smaller.