No free parking for just formula

[SquawkFish]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3929020/Demonised-buying-baby-milk-Tesco-bans-mother-s-car-park-discount-bought-formula-milk-s-EU-rules.html

Just a bit shocked by this despite thinking I was quite pro breastfeeding. Would be interested to hear others views, particularly as the baby is being formula fed due to medical reasons.

soubriquet I agree with you. I also think that it should be ok to point out the considerable downsides of FF without being accused of being a breast [insert hysterical comparison to mass murders]

I am not talking about health and long term outcomes. I am talking about the crappy bottle washing, sterilising, mixing, screaming baby waiting for a feed stuff.

I hated bottle feeding but its less acceptable to express that view than 'I hated bf and found it hard'.

If someone asks for advice about FF you basically have to stfu about the boring side of it.

Its impossible to discuss feeding on a parenting forum. It wouldn't surprise me if the theories about FF companies are true.
How better to keep the animosity flowing than to pop on every discussion and derail it into 'OMG you lot hate me because I FF. I am crying and its all your fault'
Add a few 'you are basically abusing your child if you don't BF' and all reasoned debate is off the table.

Alpha parent is awful.

have to say i'd rather not have the nanny state approach

But who would't care about how mothers are targeted by unscrupulous corporations? Why is it assumed by the majority that large businesses are in it for the money and have to be watched yet formula companies (who don't just make formula) are somehow exempt from this caution?

They do not develop and market their product to stop babies dying.
They do it to make money and they prey on the guilt and fears of women to do so.

Agree, Namechange. The 'breast nazis' narrative demonises women for making a choice. We don't see anyone being called a 'bottle nazi' but there are plenty of them around.

When my DiL was feeding her first baby, she was attacked on all sides - relatives, friends and even health visitors - until she started giving him bottles because wasn't gaining weight quickly. I ended up feeling like a 'BF nazi' because I had tried to support her choice to breast feed. If she has another I shall keep schtum.

have to say i'd rather not have the nanny state approach !!

Again, it's a UN and WHO Code made necessary by Nestle's decades long practice of selling into developing countries using campaigns that say, overtly, "Feed your sons this and they will be string, intelligent and handsome. Don't and you are a shite mother" Don't bother feeding it to your daughters" "Who cares if the only water you have access to is filthy and disease ridden? No! Wait! We'll sell you bottled water you can rely on!" "Go on, starve yourself to feed your sons, it's what a good mother does" and other equally unbelievable messages.

Someone needs to do a PhD researching the fantasy narratives women create for themselves to justify their feeding decisions, a feature of those narratives being the creation of villains, and epic, unscalable obstacles to breastfeeding.

Well, sadly for you (and happily for everyone else) academic research doesn't have much place for research that's already decided it's outcome based on prejudice. We tend to prefer not to support people who want to tell women that they are making up 'fantasies' in order to 'justify' choices they've made about their own bodies.

*its outcome!

NFTFT - theban is not global, the UN has no law making ability. The EU (and thus the UK) have not fully implemented the UN guidelines into law, just many of the provisions. Many countries, (especially in the third world) have not. Unicef list

I'm sure that women in developing countries are equally capable of making their own choices are we are in developed countries, they are poorer not stupid.

"who want to tell women that they are making up 'fantasies' in order to 'justify' choices they've made about their own bodies"

So you think women don't create narratives around their experiences of birth and parenting?

here

"Narrative psychology is a perspective or focus within psychology, rather than a separate discipline. Psychologists interested in narrative study how human beings create meaning from experiences by portraying themselves as protagonists in stories. Narrative psychologists believe that stories, rather than logical arguments, are the primary means by which we communicate meaning and values, according to the Psychology Department at Le Moyne College in New York."

This is a legitimate area of study.

And actually someone has already written aninteresting book about it in relation to feeding choices and experiences:

Breast Intentions

Not original research but a very interesting exploration of the psychology of infant feeding decisions and behaviours in mothers, and what bearing these may have on the likelihood of breastfeeding success. It's a really good read.

The author is currently undertaking a doctorate looking at the night time parenting and feeding behaviours of bottle feeding and breastfeeding families.

Nobody (well, perhaps not nobody, but not me anyway) is setting out to tell anyone they are a shit mum for FF. FWIW the odds were stacked against me (post-breast cancer, then DD nearly dying and being tube fed for the first week of her life) so it is astonishing to me that we actually managed to BF - and I was expecting to FF. No problem with FF. Huge problem with the disgusting tactics used by Nestle etc. And if we can't get Boots points or multibuys or have to buy something else in Tesco to get free parking so that thousands of babies don't die well FUCKING HURRAY. And if anyone is too selfish to think that's a good thing, you're opinion is worth absolutely fuck all to me.

Again, we have access to formula and clean water if we want it. Not being able to get a multibuy offer in formula is not a judgement on you as a mother. It's a judgement on corporations who put profit far above infant mortality.

"they are poorer not stupid"

They are vastly more likely to be illiterate.

That can be a fairly major barrier to informed decision making...

Argh YOUR opinion not you're opinion. Sodding autocorrect.

Feelingworriednow

Slight aside but you can't show an "obviously non fertile women" (or any male) feeding a small baby with a bottle either.

That's just in advertising, I hope! It would be beyond wrong if it applied to plays or soaps which could have a story line about a widowed or other LP father for whom it's ff or nothing.

Didn't we do that earlier, caroldecker ?

If not, in our rush to correct the EU/Brexit stupidity, we should have!

The UK has embedded much but not all of the Code in law, the USA have not. Many other countries have, more have not.

India and Pakistan have fully implemented the code in law... and Nestle have paid enormous fines for contravening those laws... but the penalty does not outweigh the profits.... yet! The Indian government has a class action suit, $95Million for Nestle's "unfair trade practices, false labelling and misleading advertisements,"

And then there were the noodles fortune.com/nestle-maggi-noodle-crisis/

NotAnother looking at the info in the links will show you how Nestle used the low literacy levels amongst the poorest in India, actively, purposefully, deliberately, in order to increase sales.

And then there is all the other stuff....

www.babymilkaction.org/nestlefree

www.dailydot.com/via/nestle-california-bottled-water/

And then there is The Baby Killer's version www.nestle.com/ask-nestle/our-company/answers/nestle-boycott

Perhaps we should create a state formula manufacturer (and ban commercial formula) and then people could get formula on prescription - it would be pretty cheap in the big scheme of things, and it would mean people could be given gentle help with breastfeeding if they need it, and gentle advice on using formula safely.

Of course they are not stupid. Who said they were.
Decision making is affected by a great deal more than IQ.

Hence the companies using light skinned women in beautiful saris with big fat white babies to advertise their products in countries were light skin is prized and fat = survival.

They obviously spend much time explaining how expensive it is and how important clean water and sterilisation is.

They just keep focusing on the inspirational stuff.

That is how people sell things and FF is a thing to be sold.

Haven't RTFT, but Little, you said until she started giving him bottles because wasn't gaining weight quickly
I'm 99.9% sure that the growth charts are based on formula fed babies. I was lucky not to be hounded over weight gain with my youngest, but I had a track record of ginormous BFed DC by then, so they left me alone.

I still boycott bloody Nestle.

"but people need to be warned how hard BF can be too"

Did you not do any of your own research?

I'd think you'd have to live under a stone in the U.K. not to be aware that women struggle with breastfeeding.

Every single pregnant woman I've ever seen posting on mumsnet says something like this:

"I'll try to breastfeed but if it doesn't work out I won't beat myself up about it".

I'll confess I struggled with bf myself with my first completely unaware of the pitfalls and challenges. But that was my fault for not seeing it as an important issue that warranted a bit of research and preparation before I started. I fell hook line and sinker for the view that breastfeeding success or failure was purely down to luck. More fool me.

No I didn't actually. I didn't know about mn yet. Or any baby forum to be honest

I discussed it with my mw who assured me I was making the right choice and how fantastically easy it was

I was bombarded with posters in the maternity rooms saying how easy it was. How portable. Free. Best for baby.

No one told me it could be difficult. I know posters can't, but the midwife at least should have told me something

There's a bit of a difference between studying 'how human beings create meaning from experiences by portraying themselves as protagonists in stories' and claiming that women construct 'fantasy narratives' to 'justify their feeding choices'. It's very clear that you think women are in essence 'making up', or at least exaggerating, the reasons they don't breastfeed. Narrative psychologists have no interest in telling people that their own understanding of their experiences are 'wrong', which appears to be your aim.

littlefuckers you are being ridiculous 🙄. it's not ALL ABOUT YOU

Margaret I thought the fantasies referred to orginated with the advertising of Nestle etc, not the women themselves.

Just as Coca Cola did with Christmas, Nestle appropriated a section of society, re-wrote the narrative, created adverts, posters, support groups to strengthen its own story and then used that to 'prove' its 'Better than Breast' mythology!

I particularly hate the sanctimonious references in the article to that fact that she was FFing for 'medical reasons'. As if there should be different regulations for those FFing through choice.