No free parking for just formula

[SquawkFish]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3929020/Demonised-buying-baby-milk-Tesco-bans-mother-s-car-park-discount-bought-formula-milk-s-EU-rules.html

Just a bit shocked by this despite thinking I was quite pro breastfeeding. Would be interested to hear others views, particularly as the baby is being formula fed due to medical reasons.

OurBlanche That I'd be happy to agree with, but it's not what the post I objected to said: it referred to "fantasy narratives women create for themselves " (emphasis mine).

I actually don't have much of a stake in this argument: I am trying to conceive a first child, thus far without success. If I do have a baby I would very much like to breastfeed. However, I strongly object to anything that increases the many, many pressures in our society upon women and which encourages them not to trust their own instincts and judgement. I absolutely agree that formula manufacturers have historically done just that, but I don't think it's a useful corrective to tell women that they're just being delusional if they find breastfeeding too hard.

Ah! I must have read passed that bit - I blame the codeine

Mumsnet didn't exist when I had my first, and I don't think I used the internet much.But most of my friends had struggled with breastfeeding and everywhere around me babies were being formula fed.

Incidentally, I've just done a quick google for 'Breastfeeding NHS' and not one of the images of breastfeeding promotion posters on the first page of images says that breastfeeding is easy. One or two say breastfeeding is 'natural' but none say 'easy'. As I said below, we create our own narratives around our feeding choices and experiences which help us make sense of them emotionally.

Of course the real solution would be to have unbranded FF and maximum pricing.

Yes to unbranded formula, yes to no marketing of formula here or in the developing world (including no promotions, points etc) but a huge "no" to maximum pricing.

Do you honestly think that it would be fair to extort money out of women who have to ff either by choice or because they couldn't bf. Your "maximum pricing" comment implies that women should have to pay through the nose for formula because they are too feckless or lazy to bf their babies. Or that maximum pricing will magically make everyone bf.

A quick trawl through the (many) bf v ff threads on MN shows that many women would love to bf but cannot for a variety of good reasons. Anyone who maintains that all women can bf is living in cloud cuckoo land because sometimes it just doesn't work regardless of how hard you try or how much you want to. (I speak here from bitter experience.)

In the case of women who actively choose to ff, surely the "their body, their choice" approach should apply and they should not be penalised either.

I've not read the actual wording of the law Tesco claims prevents them from providing free parking - but I think there's a fair chance that it has been misinterpreted.

But do the powers that be REALLY think that women will choose formula milk to get a free parking space? Or to get Boots Advantage card points? Or Sainsburys Nectar card points. REALLY?

I also find it quite interesting that I could go into Tescos and buy wine, and they presumably would have given me the free parking if I'd spent enough £££. Yet nutrition for my baby is excluded. Ludicrous.

I find this law and its interpretation patronising in the extreme to new mothers. Mums choose to ff because they find it easier and more convenient - or, as in this case, they don't choose to at all. They do not choose formula because of advertising or sales promotions.

Did you skip straight to page 8, purple ?

You seem to have missed the 7 pages of discussion that would have given you some factual information about all of the points you raised!

www.babymilkaction.org/btr14inbrief

This includes the Code

Blueberry you've misinterpreted what the OP said about maximum pricing. Maximum, not minimum.

What's amazing is that I've never once seen anyone complaining that they can't get Boots points, Tesco reward or free parking on prescription drugs. I've never seen anyone say "it's ridiculous that it's banned, I can't help needing drugs, it's discriminating against me as a sick person, it's ludicrous to suggest that I'd get drugs I didn't need just for the sake of my reward tokens". But I see those stories frequently about formula milk. Why is that I wonder?

Doh! my post doesn't make sense.

It was supposed to say that they obviously DON'T spend time explaining about water etc.

Interesting. I'm in the states and Verizon is blocking that article.

I didn't need just for the sake of my reward tokens". But I see those stories frequently about formula milk. Why is that I wonder?

Not really comparable because tesco make no profit on prescription drugs. The cost goes straight to the NHS.

I can't get through the full thread, but the 'stupid fucking law' that 'discriminates' against formula feeding parents is also in place to protect formula feeding parents.

There were cases where prior to this law stores that ran promotions on first stage milks ran out of them (in Australia if I remember correctly) and parents were forced to switch new born babies milk brand which is recommended against because of risk to baby.

Formula promotions would effectively penalise poorer people as anyone who can't afford to bulk buy misses out or if parents can only afford to walk to the local corner shop have to pay full price rather than get 3 for 2 or something at the big tesco's.

There are a number of other ways it protects ff parents but I forget off the top of my head. But this law protects all parents, and babies, it doesn't 'discriminate' against formula feeders.

Milk is essential to life for infants, if they are not being bf then that makes formula essential to life, like prescription medicines are, and we don't promote prescRipton medication via store points etc, it's no different.

Only a complete twit could think that free parking for buying anything you want in Tesco is promoting formula milk in any way whatsoever that is not already being done by just selling the stuff in the first place. And nobody is arguing that selling formula milk is an illegal promotion.

The law says absolutely nothing about actively discouraging the purchase of formula milk, which is what you are doing if you say free parking applies to the purchase of anything but formula milk. This is just Tesco treating customers appallingly and trying to find a scapegoat for it. Their lawyers would be a better scapegoat than the legislation.

Nonetheless, that is what they are saying.

They may or may not be acting in a manner that outstrips the law:
The International Code says:
There should be no advertising or other form of promotion of products including point-of-sale advertising, giving of samples or any other promotional device to induce sales directly to the consumer at the retail level.

UK law is:
infant formula (designed for babies under 6 months) shouldn’t be advertised in a shop. Nor should there be a shop display to promote sales of infant formula milk. No coupons, premiums, special sales, loss leaders or tie-in sales can be used to promote shop sales.

Free parking may or may not fall within that. But even if it does not and it is Tesco policy, then that is it. Policy, Law or Code... it seems that you don't get free parking at Tesco if all you buy is formula!

Free parking for buying any product whatsoever does not fall in that.

I think the problem UK lawyers have is that the UN and EU work on the basis of the spirit and intent of the law, whereas UK lawyers look for any possible ludicrous misinterpretation that anyone could possibly argue, however obviously unintentional. You can't blame the rest of the world or the EU for U.K. deliberate stupidity.

Nevertheless, the job of an in house lawyer is not to give inane advice. Tesco is quite happy to bend its interpretation of the law and accounting rules to benefit itself, at risk of its reputation if found out, but not happy, it would seem, to take a straightforward interpretation of the law that is far less risky to its reputation.

Mmm! I think my point was more that if this is what Tesco want to do they can. Whether it is law or not, it can be their policy.

What you see as deliberate stupidity others see as a welcome support against The Baby Killer... or maybe Tesco is just smarting from their last run in for 'accidentally' promoting SMA

www.babymilkaction.org/archives/2892

My point is I am fed up with organisations and the media, particularly the Daily Mail, attempting to blame the EU or anything originating from outside the U.K., for decisions and interpretations made by people in this country. I am no lover of formula milk and have never purchased any, but don't even try to pretend this is about Tesco having a personal disapproval of a product it chooses to flog. It should stop selling formula milk altogether if it feels that strongly.

Whereas I couldn't give a monkey's about the DM, Tesco or media stance.

As long as people remember why Nestle is called The Baby Killer.

And that includes remembering that there is fuck all wrong with using formula. Nothing.

But there is one hell of a lot wrong in the way Nestle sells it, even here in the UK!

And all that has fuck all to do with free parking.

Which is probably why the 2 current posts are still going.

There is a link.

It may not be necessary in law, but Tesco's policy on formula includes parking, thus linking the two, in Tesco car parks,

I, personally, couldn't care less, as long as the horror that is Nestle is never allowed to hide.

The two being linked most definitely has nothing to do with Nestle, as they do not ban you from free parking if you buy KitKats...

Erm... we could do this all night.

You don't have the same opinion I have. Fine. I have boycotted Nestle since the 80s. I have followed Baby Milk Action, Mark Thomas etc. I do see the link between Tesco parking policy, the law regarding promotion of formula and Nestle. It is, for me, obvious.

And I am snotty enough about it, high enough up on my sainted hobby horse, to feel sorry for people who don't know, can't get behind the reasons for the Nestle boycott.

And that would include giving Tesco a quick nod for not including formula in their free parking policy.

I FF for medical reasons. (Or "medical reasons" as some people insist in typing.)

The medical reason, fwiw, is this: I have lupus. My drug cocktail is toxic to my daughter. If I bf whilst taking it, I would harm her. I did come off all meds for 8 weeks to feed her but by the 8th week I was literally unable to stand and in constant pain. So please don't assume medical reasons is a spurious excuse.

If I were healthy, I would bf. (I'd do a lot of other things too tbh!) However. I do support the ban on promotions on formula and all the existing legislation.

It does really hurt in the pocket though. One of those "extra costs" of being disabled, unfortunately. I am so looking forward to Dd's 1st birthday so I can give her cows milk instead.