Screaming at kid

[Henrysmycat]

More of a WWYD than AIBY.... But I'm desperate. Very long post.
Here after another sleepless night with my mind in turmoil again.
I think I'm a fairly good mother, DD who's 8, seems like a happy child; always singing, talking, at the near top of her class, healthy with all the material trappings of well off kid. while she has pretty much a lot she's no spoilt. She's loved and cherished by all of us.
Trouble is me. Evenings is when my tiredness hits me after 10 hours at a very stressful job dealing with chauvinistic, sexist Americans with hardly any sleep so everything sets me off. I end up screaming at her. It's usually, coming in from afterschool club and instead of doing homework, she sits on the telly. After the 5th time to switch it off, I end up screaming at her, grabbing the remote and give her an angry look that makes her cry. Homework is fraught and after the 3rd trip to go sharpen her pencil, I loose it again. Dinner is tough because all foods except pasta and pizza are no good. Cue screaming after a hour at the table to eat 1 flaming broccoli floret. By then is 7.30-8 and the bedtime takes for ever. After 4th time to tell her to brush her teeth but get ignored, I end up screaming again and end up slapping her bum. On top of everything we have additional stuff like for example yesterday: She has cat onesie with a massive stuffer hoodie to look like a cat head. It's uncomfortable to sleep with but she was stubborn to do so. I try to take it off her and we ended up arguing, screaming and me ending up extremely wounded up.
My husband helps and we share everything but every time I do her care, I can't do it right. She has told me point blank that she's a daddy's girl so I'm wondering if it's my behaviour, tiredness or general MH that fucks it up. I'm an anxious person and from what I can see with a short fuse too.
As a side story, I have an housebound mother, in a neighbouring country so while I visit every two months for weekends and some holidays she expects me to call her every day and spend an hour on the phone on average. I feel sorry for her as she's quite lonely. So while I cook after work while homework is being done, we talk with my mum. I also have the financial responsibility of my parents and helping a sibling come out of a financial ruining divorce.
I fall in bed at 10.30 sleep for an couple of hours if lucky and then spend the rest of the night contemplating all my failures at work, home life etc.
To the outsider, I'm an extremely well educated, highly paid individual with the perfect family and blah blah. Inside me, it's a struggle.
So you understand, all these make a bad mix. I don't know what to do to stop my screaming. It's affecting my child and I don't want to be a failure of a mother.
Any ideas?

You don't mention hubbys role in routine but would it be possible to each of you to have a specific task in her bedtime routine to prompt her on?
The night clothes I wouldn't even bother about.
Also if it make mealtimes any better my middle daughter would only eat s baked potatoe and butter for over 12 months and that's all she ate seriously! (She's 24 now and eats everything) her nickname at home was Mrs potatoe head
And the daddy's girl thing - don't take it to heart my 9year old says that too and they just don't mean it. I think in my case that I get alot of the boring stuff ie cooking, dressing...and he sweeps in ( to give me a break) with stories at bedtime snd tummy tickles etc.
You are not a bad mum, and things will get better.
Just a point re tv - we don't have TVs in our house until every task is finished e.g. Homework. It is used as s treat not a right. My 9 year old has a tv in her bedroom but is only allowed it on on a Friday and Saturday to watch a DVD. During the week she uses her CD player to listen to talking books in bed.
You will get through this and again you are not a bad mum or you wouldn't be asking for help.

Tbf Op it sounds very stressful and I would definitely feel similar in your situation, like constantly on a knife edge.

I am not a very patient person and did shout at dC1 this morning as she wasn't listening, and then of course you feel instantly guilty, constant battle with myself :D

As others have said I certainly wouldn't ring my Mum every day, and it is taking time away from your DD too. Don't let your DM spoil your relationship with DD which the daily phone calls could easily add to.

Let her sleep in her cat onesie, her problem if it's uncomfortable.

I say to mine 'you can watch 2 Paw Patrols' for example, then they switch the tv off. I they didn't I would just switch it off then remove the remote.

I also give them a couple of chances to start getting changed/tidying etc then I start counting to 3, then stuff gets chucked in the garden on they go in the shower in their clothes etc. This really doesn't happen very often but as I have always kept it the same and followed through they know the consequences.

Excuse me but where did I say, I slap her bum every day? If you read my comments properly, you'd see that I don't even do her bedtime everyday. She has another involved parent.
I came here for advice and I'm getting kicked down over something I didn't even do.

This did inspire me to post after days of just reading. Drastic changes are called for as you will reach a point of no return if you carry on like this. It is clear that you are both very stressed and I think that trying to be everything to everybody is having a massive impact on your DD who is and has to be your priority. We have a moral responsibility to our parents and siblings but a legal responsibility to our children in addition. I understand that you will want to support your sister and parents but there are limits. I think sometimes our older generations become totally dependent on us as we like with our children contribute to creating that dependency and it is emotionally draining. Would it be wrong to speak honestly to your sister and say that this is just not sustainable ? Your sister may not be fully aware of how you are feeling. You need to explain that this is impactingon your DD. Firstly I would say keep in touch with your parents but limit it to two or three times a week; the world will not end if you don't phone. Could your sister fill in the days you can't? Is the financial commitment too much for you to cope with? By all means support your sister buth throwing money at situation doesn't resolve it. If you didn't have all these commitments you may not ha e to work so many hours. You sound so like a very educated and talented woman; do you have to work where you do? As for your DD let her where that cat onesie to bed; if she doesn't eastt her tea then she'll not starve. Sit down eat with her and model good "food behaviour". Do you argue over it tell her that is what is on offer take or leave it? Could She help you prepare tea? She sounds like a bright little lady and will pick up on your stress kids often feel the weight of the responsibility too you don't want these years to be the marker of her childhood and her teenage years are not far away. Take stock and have a think; this may sound like a cop out but would some tiem on sick from work totally leave your career in tatters. Good luck

Firstly, I appreciate it's hard and you are clearly under stress. However, your otherwise happy child is behaving like this because she sees you behaving like this. She senses your wound up feelings and she is responding to it by exerting control in her own way. Take the emotion out of it. Switch off the TV. Don't say a word. Unplug it if you have to. Place the meal in front of her. She either eats it or she doesn't. Let her wear the onesie to bed. If she's uncomfortable, that's her call. She's old enough to figure it out. Don't engage with her over it. Calmly and wordlessly carry out what you need to do.

I think you need to speak to someone about your mood and frustration too. You're clearly not coping. You recognise this because you've posted on here. Something has to give. Don't let it be your relationship with your little girl.

Is your GP any good? I wonder if you could be referred for some talking therapy?

Take care of yourself.

Henrysmycat you're not new to MN, you know how AIBU works. You decided to start a thread in AIBU where you offered the information that you get stressed at work and are having difficulty sleeping. You said you find yourself getting stressed with your DD screaming at her and smacking her.
Is that U! Yes it is. OPs including me have suggested changes you might like to consider. Seriously how would you describe the behaviour of an adult who screams and slaps another adult, never mind a child? It does not have to happen daily to be unacceptable. Has your H made any suggestions as to how this cycle of behaviour can be stopped?
I am certainly not Little Miss Perfect but I have been in your DD's position and it's horrible.

OP, I think it was inevitable that some posters would criticise you on a thread like this as AIBU is not an advice or support forum. Only you know what really is happening at home. I would just take the advice you feel is helpful/applicable and ignore the rest.

Hi, OP, lot's of very good advice for you here.
Just want to say, that my mother was like that, she was also working full time and probably was very tired, but it is no excuse for shouting (emotional abuse) and slapping(physical abuse) a defenceless child. Slap on the bum is just so humiliating. She is 8, she will remember that. I have no close relationship with my mother as a result.
Also I was also the fussy eater, I guess it was a way to control at least a little something in my life. The more she persisted, the more I refused. Now I love broccoli...
I am glad you are recognising that there is a problem, my mother never admitted she did something wrong. It is a time to stop now. Second GP visit and pre-cooked meals.
May I be curious and ask, in what country do you live? Seems a lot of homework for the UK. And definitely not Norway, in that case your DD would have been already taken away from you. Yes, one slap would be enough to have police and social services on your doorstep.

Henrysmycat

I was having a similar experience with my two children. I would snap, shout at them, then feel very guilty. I didn't recognise myself as I am normally a very calm person. I talked it through with my wife and went to the GP who diagnosed depression and anxiety -- mainly caused by work stress. I take antidepressants and have had a course of CBT and things are much better (though not perfect).

OP I would take the fact that you slapped her as a warning sign for yourself that you really need some help right now. I did, I slapped one of mine (a year or two younger) and thought- I can't do this, I can't go on like this, I can't parent older (than toddler) children by smacking, how awful! I took it as a massive wake-up call that I was off balance with my stress levels and parenting and that I had to change.

I have since chatted to my dd about being smacked and been honest about it all, it hasn't ruined our relationship. What would ruin it though was if that type of interaction had persisted and we hadn't learned to get along without smacks/shouting/her feeling constantly 'got at'.

I think you are being very defensive really, I don't blame you, I would feel the same, but you need to own what you did and own how you feel which is over-stressed, over-tired and at the end of your tether. This is not your dd's doing though (she sounds extremely normal for this age), so the onus is on you to change.

We live in The outskirts of London. The local school is high achieving so the homework that she gets twice a week is hard and long so she can have her weekend to pursue her music and singing love and give her a day off.
I support my family because the economic downturn in EU made them bankrupt. They lost everything they ever worked for and they are now retired. Well, my dad had to come out of retirement and get a menial job that would take him. My mum helps as she can by growing food. They are in their late 60's. My sibling was left to fed for herself after the ex left her with 4 kids and a mountain of dept. They live in the same country so she was hit hard financially too. It will take her a few years to get back on her feet and I can't abandon them. I'm just thankful my husband doesn't mind that I do help as we have common funds. He comes from a very well off background so for him, it's ok.
Thanks again. Whoever said, this is AIBU, it's right. I know what's going on around. Thank you.

I tried to private message you but I'm not sure how to do that??

You realise "the problem is you" as you say it in your OP. And it is....but the external pressures on you as opposed to being a "terrible mum".

You have to break this down into bits to make sense of it all.

It seems the problems are:
-your ageing mum
-your stressy job
-and probably your desire to keep up appearances.

I'd say therapy is needed but you need to have a clear delineation of the issues to be able to get the best from therapy. I don't think you sound like you have a whole lot of time to spare so this is essential to get the best from an hourly session each week.

I cannot conceive how you get a call in to your mum each day. That's the first thing you have to drop. Even going down to a call three times a week is a decent commitment. Surely she would understand?

As previous posters have said

• you absolutely need to pick your battles. She's 8 and is at the perfect age to start realising her actions have consequences (i.e. Having a bad night's sleep due to the onesie, not doing homework etc)
• don't slap her bum. My mum slapped my bum when I did something dangerous and she slapped my bum when she lost her shit at me over bedtimes/eating etc. Guess which ones I remember 30 years on.

I wish you and your family the v best of luck.

Just read your update - holy shit you have a frightful amount of responsibility on your shoulders, jaysis

The primary school my children went to was also high achieving and my children are academic (eldest got mostly A* for her 11 GCSEs) so I don't think loads of homework at age 8 correlates with high academic achievement. I also can't see the problem with doing an hour of homework at the weekend even with extracurricular activities (my teenage children do a lot of singing and theatre).

Good advice has been given on this thread about picking battles and that is really the crux. It probably helps to sit down and analyse various situations beforehand to see where you can avoid the discussion entirely, where you need to get your way but could manage it without conflict and where you actually need to stand firm.

For the examples you give, going to sleep in something uncomfortable would seem to be an obvious instance of the first. No skin off your nose: you can give yourself permission not to care.

Eating her meals might be an instance of the second: in the long run she does need to eat healthy food, but there might be ways of making it more pleasant for her. Good tips from pp about letting her help herself. Also try not to pay too much attention to how much she eats every time- play the long game. I had a fussy eater between 4 and 14, but now at 16 he eats well and is very healthy. We made it our rule that we would not offer alternative meals and that he was not allowed to make unkind comments to the cook but otoh we would aim to serve one or two meals a week that he did like and that we wouldn't fuss about how much he ate. And we made a deliberate effort to spend mealtimes talking about something non-food related.

My own experience has been that I am a stronger disciplinary force if I discipline rarely and only when it's needed. If they think I am nagging, they stop listening.

Another thing to remember is that your dd is getting to an age where children are more aware of their bodies and the autonomy of their body. Slapping her bum is no longer primarily about the pain inflicted (and I am assuming you probably aren't hurting her very much); it's also about the fact that she knows that bodies are private, that certain parts of her body are particularly so, and that this is an invasion of her privacy. When disciplining older children you ideally need to do it without invading their dignity. They become more and more like us.

It does sound like you need to evaluate your whole life here. Is this high-achieving school working for your dd? Is there any way you could cut down your hours or find a less stressful job? You say your dd has all the trappings of a well-off child- could it be that you are paying too high a price for this, in the shape of your mental wellbeing? I'd certainly follow other people's advice and cut down on the phone calls to your mother. Despite her health problems, she is still an adult who is responsible for her own wellbeing: your first responsibility is the wellbeing of your child- and that can't come without your own wellbeing.

It sounds like you are speaking to your mum out of fear/guilt (re. afraid of her feeling lonely), could you tell her you have a lot going on and if you could just speak with her at the weekend?

I think you are trying to achieve too much which in itself is stressful. It is hard enough to keep up with other's expectations but when we slave drive ourselves it is just too much. You say DD's school is high achieving, this will be stressful for her and you (been there - didn't repeat that). When she is out of school into After Care and then home to a Stressy Mum. Poor DD. Stress all day long at only 8.
Someone I know who is like this and I am concerned. Slow down with all you are doing and only do the very necessary. You said DH comes from a monied background. Do you really have to work in a stressy job, perhaps a lower paid less stressful situation would be better for all.
Helping with DM and DSis is admirable but if you crack up or worse you wont be able to help yourself never mind DD or DM or DSis. Are there any other family who could help DM and DSis?
More time less stress will make a better life in your house.

I have sympathy OP. I too am struggling with my temper.There are two things going on for you, you just have so much going on in you life. Can you cut back on anything?
Secondly, how to control your mood. I have decided to start each day seeing it as an opportunity to be conscious of my emotions and to behave with self control and constructively. I remind myself of this before 'hot spots' like dinnertime. Bring your awareness when you get frazzled. Slow your breath. Unknot your tense body.
You can try talking through, so you model for your daughter that you are taking control of yourself. Say you are starting to fell angry but you don't want to shout as that isn't a good way to be, so instead you will 'xyzzy ( eg, walk away, talk calmly'.
Maybe sit down with dd and problem solve together. Say you know your behaviour is a problem, explao. It and say you want to change. Suggest solutions, ask her to suggest some too. Come up w its a plan together.
Good luck OP. You have realised you have a problem. Many people never even get that far, but just blame their kids. So good for you!

Cut the calls to your mum down to 10 min chats to see if she's okay and give her a quick update. An hour a day after working all day would stress me out. My DF and DM hear from me once a week for 10 mins.

Get DD to do most homework at after school club.

Batch cook something like pasta at the weekend, freeze then add easy and quick stuff like vegetables during the week.

Have a couple of chill out days after work where you don't cook, DD does no homework and you don't call family.

You must sleep, this sets a positive foundation for everything. If i sleep well I'm near invincible during the day. I place a goodnight sleep as priority number one. Maybe take Nytol for a few days to get back into a patten. After about 3/4 days you should've retrained yourself. You will find that you will be less frazzled and will make better decisions. I work FT in a very full on job. My DH works away and I also have one DD. Sleeping well means I can handle it.

You have had a lot of good advice here. The really small doable ones can be put into place immediately.

Turn off the TV yourself.
Get your DH to help with the homework.
Let her sleep in what she wants
If she wants pizza or pasta just do a side of raw veg like carrot, cucumber, pepper sticks, cherry tomatoes. Save the trying of new dishes/meals for weekends and school holidays. Perhaps she can cook with you. Most children will try what they have prepared.
You mention a sibling can they not speak to your mum one night and you do the other. If you alternate, your mum gets a chat and you get less pressure on your evening.
You need to tell your sibling that you are sorry about their divorce but you are becoming very stressed and your family life is suffering and there has to be an end date to the help.

Good luck OP.

You've had a lot of good advice on this thread. Just wanted to send some support and to agree that you need to get on top of this as a matter of urgency. Stress and tireedness and anxiety are very much a trigger for temper outbursts, so anything you can do to lower your own stress will make you a better mum and help your DD. Do look after yourself!

Also to mention that my family sometimes use a kitchen timer to end phone conversations. One of my relatives was giving a lot of support to my DF at one point, he was calling her every day in conversations that lasted a long time. She is also a very busy person so when he called she told him things like "I will need to start cooking in 10 minutes. So I will set the timer and when it goes off I have to go and we can talk again tomorrow".

You're hitting and screaming at your child who doesn't sound like she's done much to warrant that kind of response. Your stress isn't her fault yet you're venting your frustrations on her and that just isn't fair.

Turn off the TV yourself after you've given her one chance to do it herself. Try getting her involved in cooking dinner. Let her sleep in the onesie if she wants; if it's uncomfortable, she'll soon realise.

I get it. I really do understand exactly where you are coming from. Some days I shout at my 5 year old DD for something I asked her to do and she forgot and I get so angry. Then I realise my expectation are unreasonable and I feel bad, then I feel myself getting wound up at her again for other insignificant things and have to mentally talk myself down. I leave the room, I hide in the bathroom, I tell my DH I just need a break from her. In actual fact, I need to fix the damage I have done by shouting at her. She is a good kid really, it isn't her fault that she forgets an instruction that I give her over an hour before she needs to do it, she is 5.

Take on board some of the excellent advice you have had here, and start to fix the relationship with your daughter. How about a Sunday morning breakfast out? My DD and I did this the other week and it was special but it was only 2 hours out of our day.