To think it is rude to not serve food until a late guest arrives?

[ethelb]

Just to give you some context, last Christmas we went to PILs.

BIL said he would turn up on Christmas eve at 5-6pm. He has said this before and turned up at 11-12 midnight, and failed to update us on his predicted arrival time. He is generally about 4 hours late all the time.

MIL gets incredibly wound up about this, and likes to make 'points'. Last Xmas eve she refused to serve dinner until BIL arrived. I eventually, after 'suggesting' we just saved some for BIL, convinced her to serve dinner at 9 or 10.

She then fussed, and fussed and fussed the entire time we were eating and yelping 'save some for him' (about half the food was 'saved') and snapping at us that he was obviously five mins away.

He turned up at midnight.

I am fretting about this happening again this Xmas, is this rude of MIL?

We have Xmas dinner at my parents' house. My DH usually works either Christmas Day or Christmas night, if he's on days he doesn't get to us until we have finished eating. My mum just plates up his three courses and covers them in foil for reheating when he arrives. If he's on nights my sister usually drives to his workplace with his dinner in a doggie bag. We wouldn't wait for him to come in before eating even though we know what time he will be there, because it's too late to start then. Your MIL is being unreasonable.

I think I'd be having a cut off time and after that saying I'm sorry but I'm hungry and I'm ordering a takeaway does anyone want to join me?
Doesn't stop MIL cooking when she wants but stops you breing hungry. And already have details of what you want and the phone number to call so they can't be used to stop you. It's your Christmas (eve) too

Rude of both of them, although mostly BiL. What I would do is at 8:30pm , say that you and DH are going to pop out for something to eat instead, as you can't wait until midnight. Sorry MiL.

I'd be taking a packed lunch with me, which I would ostentatiously eat in front of them once we had reached one hour past when I had been told we were eating.

If they are 2 hours away then you have Christmas morning at home, set off about 10am, both help with dinner preparations, eat Christmas lunch, both help with clearing up and return home again in the evening.

Invite them down to yours the next week for a pre-New Year's eve lunch at your house.

If MIL has been unwell then she may not even want to host people staying for 3 days.

Can you take control of Xmas Eve food?

Buffet good idea. Can put a place to one side for BIL if he does his usual.
Also DH needs to Have A Chat with him and just say look mate, we were all starving and it was miserable, just tell the truth about when you'll be with us.

Though also think the going for Christmas night only is a good and totally doable idea.

Also, have a stash of snacks

Take your own food this year OP or plan to arrive after the meal & eat out instead.

BIL is clearly the prodigal son and can do no wrong, so if you have to go, plan for disaster and be pleasantly surprised by anything else.

Barbara - there was a thread a while ago about persistant 'late' people (I'm a reformed 'later' myself!), the general consensus was that with people who are regularly late, they don't consider themselves running late until they haven't arrived when they said they would, but up to that point, aren't mentally 'late'.

In that case, if he had said '6pm' until actually 6pm, he's not late. For 'normal' people, they would have felt they were late if they weren't in the car, ready to leave at 2pm for a 4 hour drive. For a 'later' person, they are aware they have to leave before hand to get somewhere, but only feel late at 6pm. (And that's the point they bother to call to say they are running late)

Well, I'm torn. I can understand your husband's wanting to be with his parents given his mother's cancer struggle this year, assuming that she is still undergoing treatment, has a poor prognosis, or is otherwise unwell. But that still doesn't justify his brother's behaviour.

I assume there's no point in your DH 'having a word 'with his brother?

I think I'd show up with a bag lunch and if MiL insists on waiting for BiL I'd pull out a sammich and a bag of crisps.

Thanks again for your comments. To answer some of the remaining questions:

We can not go for a shorter period of time, as we do not own a car. We have talked about renting one but it would not get us out of staying for three nights as PIL expects it and DH is unlikely to agree to this without being very resentful towards me and blame me for any tension, that results from this or otherwise. The first Christmas we spent with them I was informed upon arrival that I would be stating for 5 nights. I contested this. I was informed again that yes I was staying five nights while DH remained glued, silently to the floor looking down. It was beyond awful.
I was young and stupid and we ended up in couples' therapy shortly after.

No, it is unlikely that DH will 'have a chat' with BIL about it. No one ever says no to BIL. A couple years ago there was an incident where BIL insisted on bringing his cats down to his parents. My MIL didn't want this, but expected him to guess this and didn't tell him no. She got so wound up about this that DH and I were uninvited from seeing them in the week after Christmas as we were due to do at the time. She and my DH have since claimed this happened because 'ethelb doesn't like cats'. So they have actually managed to scapegoat me rather than saying no to BIL, or informing him of their expectations.

I honestly don't think BIL knows to this day that we were kept waiting for our meal because he was late.

Your latest post just makes me even more sure that (in the nicest possible way) you need to toughen up and stand the feck up for yourself!

Your latest post just makes me even more sure that (in the nicest possible way) you need to toughen up and stand the feck up for yourself!

After your last post I think it's pretty obvious that there's more going on here and your BiL's arseholiness is a symptom. As I've read on MN before, you don't have a BiL/MiL problem, you have a DH problem.

Unless you're willing to deal with your DH's attitude and behavior then I think you have no choice other than to 'put up or shut up'. If your DH isn't willing to back you up you may as well save your breath to cool your old, already cold soup.

I'd still bring something to eat, even if I snuck off to the loo to scarf it down. I really do NOT like being hungry, it makes me angry, shaky, and then when I do eat chances are I'll be ill. There is no way I'd wait.

WHere are you're parents can you go there

Your DH might not set boundaries but you can.

"I will go only on the condition that dinner is in a local restaurant"

And stick to it.

DH is unlikely to agree to this without being very resentful towards me and blame me for any tension, that results from this or otherwise

Well this whole situation is fucked up in many ways then.

Why don't you have a conversation with BIL. He'd probably appreciate some straight talking instead of passive aggressive insanity. And you deal with supper on the night he's due to arrive - as a way to help out MIL.

Firstly, there is NO WAY that I would go for three days and I would be explaining that to DH very clearly. It seems very unfair for him and MIL to decide the arrangements without any input from you. And the "blaming" that is going on would properly give me the rage. Do you see your family at all over the Christmas period?

Secondly, I would be taking food and eating it if food wasn't forthcoming at a reasonable hour - eating that late is really not ok.

Well, it looks like you have a few options:

• You can moan about it here and to DH, but nothing will change because he'd far rather upset you (and actively lie in order to blame you) than speak out to his family.
• You can tell DH that he can go but you will be going elsewhere.

-You can speak to BIL and tell him the truth about what goes on.

• You can tell MIL that you can't wait until midnight to eat, and either eat before you go or take a pack-up with you.

Do either of you drive? Could you hire a car?

It's sad that your MIL is so ill, and understandable that your H wants to spend Christmas with his family. However, he doesn't actually seem to like or respect you very much I'm afraid.

In that case, let the miserable fart be resentful and plan your Christmas the way you want it.

Is there anyone you'd rather spend time with? Your H can go to his parents on his own. It sounds utterly awful.

Right, thanks for all the suggestions.

I found a local pub that has availability for Xmas Eve. I told DH and he responded admirably. He doesn't want to have to go to the pub because he doesn't want to have to deal with the highly likely scenario his parents will fuss horribly if it not 100% ok, which is a highly likely scenario. I'm not ok with this reason btw.

However, his reason for this is he doesn't want to pussyfoot around BIL anymore, and feels it is unreasonable we have to come up with an elaborate plan to minimise his impact.

He wants to do a buffet/posh nibbles at his parents house in the evening, inform his brother that is what we are doing and fuck him if he isn't there. He is happy to take charge of this. He has no intention of allowing his mother 'to be weird' about this and delay us eating by pretending his brother is just around the corner.

He is angrier about this previous Xmas than he has revealed before, and is actually a bit upset about the possibility his parents may 'cancel Christmas' this year, as they have threatened it in the past.

He is open to potentially hiring a car due to awful engineering works and I the back up plan is to have Xmas here if PILs don't want to do it this year. He isn't thrilled about this prospect but will accept it if it happens.

For those who asked about my parents, they assumed we would be at my PILs this year and have filled the house with other rellies already.

I do appreciate I need to be much clearer about expectations, boundaries and standards and sticking with them ... even when his mother is ill.

Good for you Ethel. And kudos to DH.

You cant do anything about DH's issues with his parents and his brother. You can't heal their disfunction.
You can't put boundaries down between them.

You can put down your own boundaries and make it clear to DH that whatever he decides to do, you will be sticking to your own boundaries.
You can make sure that your own relationship doesnt suffer due to their disfunction.
You can refuse to accept invitations or give in to emotional blackmail.

May I suggest further couples counselling to help him realise that his family is disfunctional and to give you both the tools to deal with it so that it doesnt impact you further.

Are you planning children?

That's a bit off both bil and mil to put him first before the people who could be bothered to turn up in time (if there was a valid reason and given notice of his late arrival you could forgive him) no way would I wait that late and keep everyone else waiting and hungry

Why should everyone wait for a selfish person? Perhaps he has always had a stupendous sense of entitlement, and reading your post I wonder how he got like that....? Mil should put the food that she knows her lovely son will want on a plate, perhaps an extra big helping for the dear boy /selfish b***d and then everyone else can eat hot fresh food . Can nobody else say this too - does it have to be you/ Are they all scared of him - and her??

If she keeps doing that then he will always be late. Is BIL her favourite?