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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To have taken this action with ds

127 replies

SEmyarse · 06/11/2016 09:09

I honestly don't know but I seem to have become heartbroken over doing what I thought was the right thing.

Ds is 20 and we have always got on like a house on fire. We've always chatted loads about everything. Maybe the background is a little relevant - I fell pregnant with him at 19 to a man that was severely disabled and terminally ill. I was told he probably wouldn't live to see the birth but he actully lived until ds was 9. Yes, I was incredibly silly falling pregnant in this way, but I've spent the whole of his life trying to do what was right by him. I ended up in a major legal battle to try to get his father living with us (took 5 years) and then another 5 years handling a very extensive care package to enable us to live together. I very definitely did this because I considered it the right thing to do for ds, but I'm not sure now due to other factors. We also had a second child - dd1.

After his dad died I remarried and had a third child, and despite all the early trauma in his life ds coped very well and got on great with his step father.

The only issue in his life was complete lack of motivation - ever. This became apparent throughout secondary school. He just wouldn't do anything, regardless of consequences. We regularly had teachers tearing their hair out with frustration (as was I) that work was never completed. He had many and varied sanctions, but nothing ever made a blind bit of difference (and I was rather cross with the school that they often gave him more and more chances, which undermined things).

My mother also paid for driving lessons for him. He took a few and despite saying he really wanted to drive, just stopped booking them. I have no idea why since he often expressed frustration that he wasn't driving. My mother was furious and after 18 months transferred them to his cousin who passed quickly. Ds expresses jealousy of his cousin.

So he left school with some great grades (from the subjects that had held his hand) and some completely missing subjects where he didn't complete coursework (one piece took 3 years and still didn't get done) and even an exam that he didn't turn up for.

Knowing how completely unmotivated he was I encouraged him to go to college to do a practical subject, but as soon as they met him and had his references from school explaining he's an extremely bright lad they persuaded him to take a-levels. He presents extremely well and can charm the birds from the trees.

His first year at college, he spent in the snooker club and on the skateramp. He decided to restart telling me he'd realised the error of his ways and changed. He went back to his old school and restarted at 6th form. This was worse, and he did nothing, and I started getting phone calls to say he was now disruptive, playing the clown. This was embarrassing, he was the oldest kid in the school. I told the school I would talk to him but that was realistically all I could do, if he was disruptive then they should ask him to leave. They didn't, they gave him chance after chance, and even after he got CEU grades when he was supposed to get CCC, they let him back on the course. All teachers say he was capable of As.

When he got a part time job I asked him to pay a small amount of rent in the hope that it might click that there were things in life that had to be done. He has always been expected to help out around the house also. He did these things without grumbling but without exception had to be asked to do them.

In April this year he dropped out of 6th form and was immediately given full time hours at his job, and also a promotion. I assume this means he works hard at his job (it's a cafe). I explained to ds that if he wanted to work in the cafe long term that was fine by me. He said that's absolutely not what he wanted to do and he wanted a career. I said that was fine, but because of history of not ever doing anything that I would have to be quite pushy with him. He would have to pay a more proportionate share of living costs (which he agreed was fair) and come up with some kind of plan of what he was going to pursue if he wanted to live here relatively cheaply as a step up into something else. I gave him until the end of July to tell me what the plan was, and if there was no plan that he would have to move out by the end of October. He agreed with this totally. Apart from anything else his sister's could do with separate rooms.

Things domestically went down hill. We had to chase his rent every month. He stopped doing anything around the house. He stopped communication about food so after many wasted dinners we stopped including him in dinner arrangements. He stopped doing even the small amount of housework he'd been doing. His room descended into squalor, and he only stayed here about 2 nights a week. If I ever tried to tackle any of these subjects he told me there was no point because he was moving out soon. He even refused to clear up when I had a landlord inspection.

July came and went with no response, so in August I had a chat with him and he confirmed he intended to move out at the end of October. I said I was going to have to be hard and strictly enforce this, because we were getting nowhere. He said he understood it was for his own good, he agreed he would carry on taking the mick otherwise. I cried, he could see I was extremely upset at having to ask him to move on. Despite the problems we chatted all the time and he got on great with his sisters.

So end of October, I could see no action of any kind and with a week to go he went to Budapest. He had 3 days left when he came back and he told me he'd got something sorted although he kept muttering about a room in a crack house. He said it was only for 3 months until he went to Australia. He's been talking about this for a while, but as with everything else I didn't believe it would happen. I was determined to stand firm and do what I thought was right for him and make him stand on his own feet at last. My husband thought maybe we should extend till after xmas but I was determined not to kick it down the road again, I didn't think we were doing him any favours.

At the last minute, it turned out that he's actually been offered the room at his friend's house (who's already gone to Australia) for zero rent. Apparently the other mum's of his friendship group think me getting him to pay his way was utterly unreasonable at his age (20) and were queuing up to take him in. He has now expressed (as never before) that he thinks I've treated him badly.

I am heartbroken. I was only trying to do this to help him - genuinely. I almost couldn't bear the thought of him not being around, we've been through a lot together, but I was determined to do what was best to help him grow up. If I'd known this was going to happen I wouldn't have asked him to move on.

OP posts:
waterrat · 06/11/2016 12:42

OP you have made a decision, have faith in it.

Keep communication open with your son and stay friends. He will be safe and learning about life - I would find it difficult seeing a friends mum take my chid in, but in the end you did do the right thing. If he behaves and is tidy there - that's a good thing isn't it? That might be better than him being a child at home with you. Maybe he finds living at home stifling and needs the responsibilty of getting out and being seen differently.

I was a very, very disorganised and unmotivated teenager but I changed a lot at about 22/23 - found the job I cared about and threw my heart into it. I am 39 now! and succesful in a competitive industry - I needed to make my ownd ecisions .

Your son is young - maybe it is best al round that you step back a bit. I don't think it is healthy to be on a 20 year old mans back all the time telling him what to do.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 06/11/2016 12:45

I can understand your feelings - you wanted your son to learn a life lesson, and instead, he's got a more cushy number elsewhere, and is learning nothing.

I also think (and again totally understand if it IS the case) that you have some resentment as to how different his life is at 20 to how yours was. You never had the freedom to do what he's doing - i.e. very little - you were already a responsible adult with a small baby, a disabled husband and a community-based conscience to deal with. There must surely be a part of you deep down that wishes you'd had your DS's problems when you were his age - so much easier than how you had it!

But. Those things happened; your DS has other things going on and hopefully, just hopefully, he will mature over the next couple of years, work out where he's going in life, pull it together and sort himself out. Keep your door open for him (not to move back in, since there's now no space for him) so that he still feels comfortable and welcome whenever he comes to see you - but stay tough on the decisions you've made. You KNOW they were the right ones, even though the consequences haven't exactly turned out quite how you thought they would.

Thanks for you.

Namechangeemergency · 06/11/2016 12:46

Francis mobile phones are not 'surviving'.
Not so long ago if you didn't get up and slog away at a hard, dangerous job you couldn't survive.
We have moved on and have more choices. That is good. We are not sending our boys off to work in mines and factories for 14 hours a day, 6 days a week. We are not expecting young men to support families in their teens.
But it does mean that if you have a child (male or female) who is not particularly motivated by 'stuff' and has set low standards for themselves, they are not going to starve or die on the streets if they don't shift their arse.

I know kids who won't even sign on because its beneath them!
My DS did sign on and was perfectly happy with the little he got a week. He didn't want expensive trainers or iphones.

He has changed now. He still doesn't care much for iphones and trainers but he has matured enough to want to contribute and make something for himself.

Mix56 · 06/11/2016 12:49

Apparently the other mum's of his friendship group think me getting him to pay his way was utterly unreasonable at his age (20) and were queuing up to take him in. He has now expressed (as never before) that he thinks I've treated him badly.
Or so he says. They may be surprised but they haven't the full back ground info. You have not treated him badly, you have given him chance after chance & tried to get him to think ahead.
One of the lessons in life is that it is not Free.
How do you know the mother isn't asking for some money?
How long do you think they will take him in for nothing?
What's the betting he always thought you wouldn't go through with it.
He is out partying ever night. It's time for him to grown up. & IMHO you are doing exactly the right thing.
Well done

BlueFolly · 06/11/2016 13:04

It sounds like you are resentful of people who 'have it easy' and fear your son is one of those people. Remember that nobody likes a martyr.

You will not change him by getting him to leave, but it sounds like it's still the right thing to do for you, for him, and for your DDs.

queenofthebucket · 06/11/2016 13:06

OP i asked because linking to other pp have said, it may be that you need to step back and reduce focusing on him and what he has or hasnt achieved . I know it is hard to "let go", but that is where doing things for yourself comes in.

Perhaps take a piece of time, and imagine cleaning ds room for example, or worrying about his job prospects, and use that time to run myself a lovely bath/go for a swim/ think about my career development etc.

You sound very efficient in your job and activities for the children, you have cared for exH for many years and possibly the idea of time just for yourself is harder for you. You could try this and see if you get some benefit that can be tangibly measured as a result of unfocusing on DS ?

SEmyarse · 06/11/2016 13:09

Yeah, that's also fair. My brother (well his wife) has just had his first child at 35. They've been more or less gifted a 3 bed house, and everything you could possibly want for a baby.

He only works part time.

What really riles is that my mother has just decreed that he should sleep in the spare room because he can't cope with tiredness. Yep golden boy treatment runs through the family.

OP posts:
SEmyarse · 06/11/2016 13:09

That was to bluefolly

OP posts:
SEmyarse · 06/11/2016 13:10

I do have a lot of baths though

OP posts:
FrancisCrawford · 06/11/2016 14:20

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

llangennith · 06/11/2016 14:26

Your recent posts are very telling.
I think you want your DS to leave as he doesn't conform to your expectations so can see no place in your family for him either emotionally or physically.
You're kicking him out so your DD can have a more comfortable space in your home.
He hasn't actually done anything wrong.

VivienneWestwoodsKnickers · 06/11/2016 14:34

Oh look, trolls are appearing Hmm

Mix56 · 06/11/2016 14:35

llangennith.
Other than mess around, fail in school/college constantly because he can't be arsed, drop out, do nothing, work in a café & want to live a pig stye in his mothers' home for nothing, whilst she has lost one of her two jobs, leaving the 2 DDs in one bedroom, & he rocks in occasionally after partying all night.
When does it stop ?

LittleMissMarker · 06/11/2016 14:36

That is EXACTLY why I'm worried about him. There are far too many people in the world like that and I really can't stand that he may be adding to their ranks.

Please try to restrain that kind of worry. OK, your DS isn't doing things YOUR way. But he is getting along well enough in his own way. And that's fine. Honest! Your disapproval is toxic for your DS and it's toxic for you too. Let him muddle through in his own way. And let him do it by himself.

The deal you offered was a fair one - pay rent and help out or move out. He made his choice. He's reached an age where parents dont really impose consequences any more, the world does. The consequence of not pulling his weight in the place where he lives is that he has to find somewhere else to live. That is true at home and he will learn it is also true in the outside world. If he finds a free place to live that's fine (while it lasts).

You are not making him homeless, he can afford to pay proper rent. He really can stand on his own two feet! If you act calm and confident about his ability to look after himself then that will rub off. And if you offer him a nice meal and pleasant relaxed conversation (and use of the washing machine) then why woudn't he come visit you?

Of course you're worried underneath - you're Mum, it's our job to worry! - but stay cool on the outside. Fake it til you make it!

IF however he showed signs of wanting to do some training, or even just some serious saving, or even just learing to drive or something then I was happy for him to stay and use us as a cushion. What actually happened was that he was partying every single night

Perfect. He's ready to move out. Act firm but cheerful. Ignore whingeing.

Doing too much for someone can be a kind of control. My parents were like that and 20 years after I left home I still couldn't act like an adult around them. It was easier to give in and do things their way - and feel disengaged - than to try to follow my own ideas and manage their disapprovals and anxieties. (They are now so elderly this is no longer an issue.) I found it very hard to act independent around my parents and my family always seem a bit surprised that I manage to hold down a job etc. If I had stayed living with my parents I probably wouldn't. But (with professional psych advice) they did encourage me to move out when I was 19 and we all got on a lot better afterwards. Some people don't grow up properly until after they leave home.

Namechangeemergency · 06/11/2016 14:40

No. They need to work to achieve an adequate or decent quality of life.
That isn't the same as working to survive.

DS lived in a hostel and got JSA.

Not the sort of life most of us want to live but it suited him for that stage in his life.
That option wouldn't have been available to him half a century ago, as going to university wouldn't have been an option for your DD.

A mobile phone is a modern necessity but you can survive without one and if you are in a place where doing nothing is more important than having one, you will get by.

It is why some parents struggle with their older children who dig their heels in and refuse to participate. The motivation has to come from them missing stuff or really wanting to do something.
If those motivations are not present there isn't much to be done.
Luckily, IME, something kicks in after a while and kids tend to get their act together. Unless there are much deeper issues involved.

WLF46 · 06/11/2016 14:54

Personally I think you fucked up, but I can see I am in a minority. You'll only know for sure whether you did the right thing in ten or more years time. If he's successful because of - or, indeed despite of - your treatment of him, then I guess it worked out.

People seem to think that a 20-year-old is grown up. Many people do not reach maturity until well after this age. Issuing an ultimatum for him to leave is basically telling him that you have given up on him. That's not your intention, but that is how it will look.

To me he sounds like he has been spoilt and allowed to fail over the years. Maybe this is a major character flaw on his part, or maybe it's the way he was brought up. But either way, you have seriously damaged your relationship with him because of your selfishness. He might get over it, he might not. But this sort of thing will stick in his mind if you ever need a favour from him, if you are ever in need of help and have nobody to turn to. You let him down, and you have to live with the consequences of your decision.

FrancisCrawford · 06/11/2016 15:13

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FrancisCrawford · 06/11/2016 15:18

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LittleMissMarker · 06/11/2016 15:22

WLF46 I don't really see where you are coming from. What's done is done and I can't see anything selfish about the OP, nor so very failed about her DS either. He's not a druggie or an alkie or a criminal or even a waster, he has a job, he's been promoted. He under-achieved at school but if he wants he can go to college later when he's grown up a bit and decided to commit himself. What do you think the OP should do now? Are you saying her DS shouldn't move out?

Namechangeemergency · 06/11/2016 15:29

you can only claim JSA for six months

are you sure about that?

Contribution based JSA allowance if for 6 months but not income based.

Are you honestly trying to tell me that its harder to survive without working now than it was 50 years ago?

Yes technically a grant would have been available 50 years ago (introduced in the early 60s) but the chances of your daughter being at university as a working class woman were pretty low.

Why on earth are you so determined that I am wrong. What is it you think I am saying. Because you seem to be having an argument all by yourself.

What possible reason would you have for that?

If you are stating that young people have to work in order to survive in the way they did 50 years ago and it is harder and less common for working class children to go on to further education than it was in the 60s, I am not going to agree with you.

FrancisCrawford · 06/11/2016 16:20

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheMadGardener · 06/11/2016 17:49

How frustrating for you to see someone with so many talents apparently wasting them, but try not to get too down. You don't seem unreasonable to me - it's not like you suddenly threw him out with no warning! I suspect the friend's parents will lose their enthusiasm for putting him up if his room there "descends into squalor". He's had good parenting and he has lots going for him - I suspect that at some point he will get a grip on things. Maybe if he meets a girl who he really likes who doesn't accept squalor or laziness! I knew someone very similar at school who was his parents' despair when he dropped out of university after many years slumped on school desks not engaging, but in his mid-twenties he got his act together and now has a good job and a family.

SEmyarse · 06/11/2016 18:25

That's the only surprise to me, that he didn't move in with his girlfriend. She's from an apparently very liberal family, and her sister has just left for uni, so there's room in the very large house.

But he has mentioned beofre that she gets annoyed with his inability to get anything done. I don't think he's overly bothered about her though.

OP posts:
MrsTerryPratchett · 06/11/2016 18:34

It sounds to me as if you are going through a transition. DS is leaving, you are doing inventory. Your reward for being so selfless and caring for years should be a selfless, hard-working and caring son. But he's falling short.

I don't think this is as much about your child as it is about your life. None of us get a medal for the shitwork we do. You did more shitwork than most but you don't get a bigger medal. What you get is your kids. Average, with some issues, lazy and selfish sometimes. Young and finding out who they are.

At 20, he's still young and will find out as he makes his mistakes what the consequences are.

Personally I think he needs a job where being lazy, charming, feckless and a bit selfish is an asset; estate agent?

SEmyarse · 06/11/2016 18:49

Oh is that why someone said he'd make a good estate agent the other day?

I've always lived in social housing so didn't really get the nuance, if that's what they meant.

OP posts:
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