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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To have taken this action with ds

127 replies

SEmyarse · 06/11/2016 09:09

I honestly don't know but I seem to have become heartbroken over doing what I thought was the right thing.

Ds is 20 and we have always got on like a house on fire. We've always chatted loads about everything. Maybe the background is a little relevant - I fell pregnant with him at 19 to a man that was severely disabled and terminally ill. I was told he probably wouldn't live to see the birth but he actully lived until ds was 9. Yes, I was incredibly silly falling pregnant in this way, but I've spent the whole of his life trying to do what was right by him. I ended up in a major legal battle to try to get his father living with us (took 5 years) and then another 5 years handling a very extensive care package to enable us to live together. I very definitely did this because I considered it the right thing to do for ds, but I'm not sure now due to other factors. We also had a second child - dd1.

After his dad died I remarried and had a third child, and despite all the early trauma in his life ds coped very well and got on great with his step father.

The only issue in his life was complete lack of motivation - ever. This became apparent throughout secondary school. He just wouldn't do anything, regardless of consequences. We regularly had teachers tearing their hair out with frustration (as was I) that work was never completed. He had many and varied sanctions, but nothing ever made a blind bit of difference (and I was rather cross with the school that they often gave him more and more chances, which undermined things).

My mother also paid for driving lessons for him. He took a few and despite saying he really wanted to drive, just stopped booking them. I have no idea why since he often expressed frustration that he wasn't driving. My mother was furious and after 18 months transferred them to his cousin who passed quickly. Ds expresses jealousy of his cousin.

So he left school with some great grades (from the subjects that had held his hand) and some completely missing subjects where he didn't complete coursework (one piece took 3 years and still didn't get done) and even an exam that he didn't turn up for.

Knowing how completely unmotivated he was I encouraged him to go to college to do a practical subject, but as soon as they met him and had his references from school explaining he's an extremely bright lad they persuaded him to take a-levels. He presents extremely well and can charm the birds from the trees.

His first year at college, he spent in the snooker club and on the skateramp. He decided to restart telling me he'd realised the error of his ways and changed. He went back to his old school and restarted at 6th form. This was worse, and he did nothing, and I started getting phone calls to say he was now disruptive, playing the clown. This was embarrassing, he was the oldest kid in the school. I told the school I would talk to him but that was realistically all I could do, if he was disruptive then they should ask him to leave. They didn't, they gave him chance after chance, and even after he got CEU grades when he was supposed to get CCC, they let him back on the course. All teachers say he was capable of As.

When he got a part time job I asked him to pay a small amount of rent in the hope that it might click that there were things in life that had to be done. He has always been expected to help out around the house also. He did these things without grumbling but without exception had to be asked to do them.

In April this year he dropped out of 6th form and was immediately given full time hours at his job, and also a promotion. I assume this means he works hard at his job (it's a cafe). I explained to ds that if he wanted to work in the cafe long term that was fine by me. He said that's absolutely not what he wanted to do and he wanted a career. I said that was fine, but because of history of not ever doing anything that I would have to be quite pushy with him. He would have to pay a more proportionate share of living costs (which he agreed was fair) and come up with some kind of plan of what he was going to pursue if he wanted to live here relatively cheaply as a step up into something else. I gave him until the end of July to tell me what the plan was, and if there was no plan that he would have to move out by the end of October. He agreed with this totally. Apart from anything else his sister's could do with separate rooms.

Things domestically went down hill. We had to chase his rent every month. He stopped doing anything around the house. He stopped communication about food so after many wasted dinners we stopped including him in dinner arrangements. He stopped doing even the small amount of housework he'd been doing. His room descended into squalor, and he only stayed here about 2 nights a week. If I ever tried to tackle any of these subjects he told me there was no point because he was moving out soon. He even refused to clear up when I had a landlord inspection.

July came and went with no response, so in August I had a chat with him and he confirmed he intended to move out at the end of October. I said I was going to have to be hard and strictly enforce this, because we were getting nowhere. He said he understood it was for his own good, he agreed he would carry on taking the mick otherwise. I cried, he could see I was extremely upset at having to ask him to move on. Despite the problems we chatted all the time and he got on great with his sisters.

So end of October, I could see no action of any kind and with a week to go he went to Budapest. He had 3 days left when he came back and he told me he'd got something sorted although he kept muttering about a room in a crack house. He said it was only for 3 months until he went to Australia. He's been talking about this for a while, but as with everything else I didn't believe it would happen. I was determined to stand firm and do what I thought was right for him and make him stand on his own feet at last. My husband thought maybe we should extend till after xmas but I was determined not to kick it down the road again, I didn't think we were doing him any favours.

At the last minute, it turned out that he's actually been offered the room at his friend's house (who's already gone to Australia) for zero rent. Apparently the other mum's of his friendship group think me getting him to pay his way was utterly unreasonable at his age (20) and were queuing up to take him in. He has now expressed (as never before) that he thinks I've treated him badly.

I am heartbroken. I was only trying to do this to help him - genuinely. I almost couldn't bear the thought of him not being around, we've been through a lot together, but I was determined to do what was best to help him grow up. If I'd known this was going to happen I wouldn't have asked him to move on.

OP posts:
SEmyarse · 06/11/2016 11:42

He did try to claim he must have ADHD or something at one point. But I admit I'm dubious since until the age of about 12 apart from chatting too much, there were no problems. He was always top of the class and a very high achiever. He had no problems with concentrating on his work.

OP posts:
toptoe · 06/11/2016 11:42

Can you sit down with him and ask him at a time when you're not disagreeing what he wants in life. Where he feels his place is in society? It would help you understand what is going on in his mind and explain why he's making these decisions.

It's true he is only 20 and we all make short-sighted decisions then. I was crap with money. But I had some sort of plan and an idea of where I fit in society. To me it sounds like he doesn't trust people, feels he needs to charm them, perhaps feels that he doesn't 'fit in' in society. That employment/education aren't really for him. That it's all a bit pointless for him.

Whilst he sounds like he's living the life of riley actually it's all a bit shit for him because he has no room at yours, you don't really know what the deal is with the other mum (he probably has told her a few fibs and realises at some point she'll want rent too) and he's not got any aims in life - he lacks hope.

I would follow another tack. Start talking and asking him how he feels about life and try to be honest and get honest answers without judging him. If he honestly says he sees no point in working, at least you know then what he feels. You can then find out why he thinks that. He might start saying things that are unrealistic like he'll get famous/get rich quick plans. You need to gently educate him that life is about give and take, that he can trust others to give back if he gives to them, that you don't have to charm everyone to get their help. That most people are passive and kind and are to be trusted to some extent.

LittleLionMansMummy · 06/11/2016 11:43

Op it sounds to me like you've been supportive, caring, understanding and loving. I really feel for you as it sounds like an impossible situation where however you dealt with things, you can't have 'won' so to speak. Some of your ds's characteristics remind me of a young man with dyspraxia I once knew and despite considerable help and support he still found life very hard indeed. I don't like diagnosis by Internet, but as you sound like a great mum I do wonder if your ds has some underlying undetected issues. I'm not sure what the answer is, but just ensure he continues to know how loved he is. Sorry you're going through this.

toptoe · 06/11/2016 11:44

x post. So he felt around 12 that something was 'different'. What happened around this age to make him feel this? Did he start having problems with behaviour at school?

sterlingcooper · 06/11/2016 11:44

He sounds a little bit like someone I grew up with. Very charming, bright, everyone loved her but totally unmotivated. Lived with her parents for free while she flitted between college/uni courses and various jobs none of which lasted long. They paid for her fancy wedding, and were there to pick up the pieces when it fell apart, relocated for her to help with childcare, bought her a house and a car. All the while she was doing short lived part time jobs or else going back to college. After a while she started seeing a therapist and cane to the conclusion her mother had ruined her life by smothering her and controlling her. Now they barely speak.

Note that she kept the house and car and is still happy to use them for childcare.

The dangers of doing too much...I think you have to let him go for now, frustrating as it is that he's not immediately learning the lesson you hoped as he gets to live for free. But that lesson will come, give it time.

SEmyarse · 06/11/2016 11:44

I think that's fair to say I feel resentful. and yes that does make me feel like a bad person.

OP posts:
Mummyoflittledragon · 06/11/2016 11:46

You haven't failed. You worked and tried very hard. You made some less than perfect choices in your life and stuck to your beliefs. You were an amazing person to look after such an ill person. The choice you've made to ask your ds to leave is a very hard one.

He sounds as if he is a very complex and difficult to live with person. On the one hand, he has a big heart and principles and on the other hand he's refusing to look after himself, his future and take responsibility for himself. So he hasn't learnt all he needs to know about self care. I know that your situation was very different when you were his age. However, I do see some kind of parallel because you also refused to self care and destroyed yourself by taking on a man on a ventilator with a baby in tow. Perhaps your ds will get what he needs to learn and will grow up. As viques said, this is pretty much a win win situation.

Namechangeemergency · 06/11/2016 11:46

Pimmms he doesn't sound very different from the OP's son.
Right down to the living with a disabled parent and suffering a huge loss.
He is clever and charming and talented.
He wouldn't get a 'proper' job and thought that 20 hours was a full time job.

He needed time to mature. He is maturing. People do that at different rates and to different degrees.

The OP's son is managing very well. He gets fed and clothed and is comfortable. He may have found learning to drive boring. He hasn't found something he wants to do yet.
That all may be infuriating but its still well within normal ranges of behaviour.

Young men don't have to work to survive. They don't have to strive in order to live an ok lifestyle. Some want a lot more and will do everything they can to get it. Others are not that fussed and just want their 'basic' needs met.

Sounds like he needs to grow up a bit. Which again, is perfectly normal in a 20 year old isnt it?

EmeraldIsle100 · 06/11/2016 11:47

You are not being kind to yourself by beating yourself up.

SEmyarse · 06/11/2016 11:53

Why did I refuse to self care?

Genuine question. There's clearly a parallel I can't see.

OP posts:
SEmyarse · 06/11/2016 11:57

I don't know if I neglected him when he was tiny, but I assure you that I tried my absolute best not to. I went through the fight for him to have a home and a father because of him.

We gave up with having his dad over fairly quickly once I was given some permanent housing, it was just too hard. But then the care package took another 4.5 years to sort so I had to visit the care home daily which wasn't ideal at all.

OP posts:
RepentAtLeisure · 06/11/2016 11:58

He sounds like the type who will always land on his feet, and find an endless succession of 'fixer' women to ring dry of indulgence and goodwill. I know several men like that. (And if he is the type I'm envisioning he probably has little fanclubs either side of the counter at work that do most of his work and make him look good in front of the boss.) In fact your DS has even charmed several MNers via your words! So I really wouldn't worry about him.

Let him get on with it. He'll either revert to type at his friends' home and be moved on or indulged, dependent on their personalities, or if he maintains the effort involved he'll mature a little and start to understand what you've had on your plate, which would be very good for him.

SEmyarse · 06/11/2016 12:00

That is EXACTLY why I'm worried about him. There are far too many people in the world like that and I really can't stand that he may be adding to their ranks.

OP posts:
cansu · 06/11/2016 12:01

People like this tend to do well in spite of their lack of effort. I would let him move out. You aren't cutting him off. I assume you will help him out if he really gets into trouble. Encourage him to take advantage of the free room. If he takes the piss out of all these people lining up to help him, he will be asked to move on.

queenofthebucket · 06/11/2016 12:01

I agree with llangennith. I get the impression you are a very strong and stoical person who does what they think is "right" and has made a lot of sacrifices in order to do that. Even if you don't go on about expectations of careers etc you probably have very high standards for your self and possibly expect them from your ds too even if you don't explicitly voice them.

He may be feeling that he has been sidelined because of the needs of your exH, but we don't know that. it sounds as though you are a very conscientious mother and have done everything for him that he needed.

He may be much better off living elsewhere and setting his own standards and meeting them or not, he will find out what he needs to make himself happy instead of worrying that he is not making you happy.

Mummyoflittledragon · 06/11/2016 12:01

Because you put a terminally ill person before your health. My mother did the same with her husband. She was thoroughly exhausted. So I can imagine what you did. My mother's husband, firstly catheterised then when he became completely immobile, hoisted, fed through a peg, regular diarrhoea over the bed etc. And although you were younger, you had a ds as well. You talk of feeding him and hoisting you dh at the same time.

EmeraldIsle100 · 06/11/2016 12:02

D'ont worry about it until it happens. It might never happen. You are torturing yourself. Stop fixating on him and focus on your own well being.

FrancisCrawford · 06/11/2016 12:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SEmyarse · 06/11/2016 12:10

The feeding and hoisting was in the first few weeks and was clearly impossible, so that stopped when I was housed. Then for the next 4.5 years I visited him daily. The other residents were very understanding but it was difficult. We sometimes tried to stay overnight, but if he woke in the night I would immediately leave the house with a crying baby and have to sort him out in the streets. I had no car and lived 4 miles away. Sometimes I walked home at 2am.

I learnt from this that I would never manage without full care, so when he eventually moved in with us I had full care in the day time (and even got a job) and provided night care 5 nights a week myself.

OP posts:
FrancisCrawford · 06/11/2016 12:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pimmmms · 06/11/2016 12:12

Ok, maybe I'm trying to transpose the issues I am dealing with because of my DSs, but I really think the OP should at least give it some consideration.

One of the things that stood out for me while researching this for my DSs (7 and 9, and the bane of their teachers at the moment because of the way they get distracted so easily, take forever to get onto tasks, etc, etc) is one of the websites I found asked 'Do they have a parent who was very bright, but didn't achieve academically what they could have'..... and I had a lightbulb moment.

That's ME! I was clever, got through school very easily until it got to the point where I had to be organised, motivated, etc, etc. At that point the wheels fell off. I resat my final school year, scraped into university, dropped out, got into secretarial school.

I managed to get a decent job, and after a very shaky first 6 months where I had to learn how to get things done to other people's timetables, and not my own, I managed to get myself sorted out. Yes, I did go and get a degree, in fact I now have 2. For all the good they have done me. I have loads of ideas, but can't stay motivated and organised long enough to get anywhere with them. I'm an extraordinary procrastinator and when faced with a hard deadline pull out the most amazing work, but I always wonder how much better it could be if I could have spent some time planning it, going over it, polishing etc. But I never, ever do.

So here I am in my mid 40s wondering how the hell I let so many opportunities slide through my fingers. I am researching behavioural therapy for my DSs, so that they can be taught NOW how to organise their thoughts, and themselves, to get on with their work, through their work, and achieve what they have the potential to, because I sure as hell didn't.

The OP has a chance with her son now, in his early 20s, to get some behaviour therapy in place to see if he can turn himself around. At 20 he is old enough and mature enough to know that he wants more, perhaps with some behavioural therapy he can be given the tools to go and do things himself and achieve what he is capable of.

queenofthebucket · 06/11/2016 12:14

OP can I ask, do you struggle to do things 'just for you" ?

Mummyoflittledragon · 06/11/2016 12:17

I didn't get that it was a short period of time. You still chose to have him home and care for him when no one else was around once carers were in place. You tried to stay over in the home and visited him daily. You fought very hard to have him come home. Please don't think I'm in anyway judging you. I'm not. The sacrifice you made even with all the carers was substantial including financial sacrifice and paying for his care. That's my point.

GnomeDePlume · 06/11/2016 12:18

20 is still young and especially for young men can be very young. I have just suggested to my 18 year old DS that he should be looking for a part time job and he looked like a whipped puppy Grin.

SEmyarse · 06/11/2016 12:30

I do struggle to do things just for me, yes. But I'm not sure if it's in the way you mean.

I struggle generally without routine, so basically work an awful lot, and try and do kid stuff in a way that I know what's expected. Events are great, so I know what time I need to be somewhere, and what I should be doing. I adore my job (delivery driver), so I have a list of places I need to be in a day and I am a whizz at fitting in an extraordinary amount. Things that need to be done every day, great I know they need to be done so they get done, at a particular time.

Loose time? Leisure, or even general house work. I am useless! I have absolutely no idea how to cope with this at all. I'm completely bombarded with all the things that could be done, but I don't have a clue how to prioritise. I also don't seem to enjoy what most people do. I don't watch films or anything. I do like sport, but I have to do it in a timetables way or it stresses me out that I should be doing something else.

OP posts: