to think eight months in prison is a bit excessive for throwing bacon

[CondyLisa]

www.thesun.co.uk/news/2095440/two-polish-men-bombarded-london-mosque-with-tesco-bacon-after-oktoberfest-booze-binge/

"Blackfriars Crown Court heard that the pair had bought a packet of bacon at a Tesco after drinking heavily at the festival but could not remember going to the mosque on Sunday night, October 2.

Prosecutor Carol Summers said the mosque’s caretaker had at first thought the Polish pair were worshippers but was stunned when meat was thrown at him.

The men threw several rashers of bacon, also placing a third piece in the shoe of a worshipper."

They appear to have no prior offending history.

Obviously whether you are at a church, mosque or community centre, you shouldn't be hassled by drunken yobs and it is right that they should be punished, but this seems to be a de facto blasphemy sentence more than anything else.

I don't see that throwing bacon is more serious than, say, yobs ripping up flower beds that people have worked on, and which provide at least as much social utility as a place of worship - but the latter attracts a sentence of community service, whereas we have eight month prison sentence for some bacon.

It's because the symbol if the poppy has been appropriated by the likes of bloody Britain First and the EDL and their counterparts on 'the other side' know that burning them will piss people off and create further frothing and division, which for some reasons, is exactly what they want. They are two cheeks of the same arse, both as bad as each other. They should be punished accordingly
This, a million times over!

" And the whole 'Muslim' is not a race thing is crap too. Most Muslims are born Muslim - it's a part of their identity as religious and ethnic minorities "

It's not crap at all.

The number of anti-Islamic attacks is out of all proportion to anti-Hindu attacks for example, even though British Muslims are typically of a similar racial background to British Hindus.

If you find that lots of people are attacking mosques and then concluding that this is being done because the attackers are racist against brown people, then you have to ask why people aren't attacking Hindu or Sikh temples, Indian wedding halls, and so on.

It's not a racial issue, it's about the religion.

I think that the punishment is too harsh.

A woman who weed on a war memorial was given a 1 month jail sentence the first time and a 7 month jail sentence the second time.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3798328/Woman-urinated-war-memorial-jailed-seven-months.html

Why should throwing bacon at Muslims be punished more harshly than urinating on a war memorial?

I would prefer the men were given a community service order. Sending someone to prison makes them more likely to re offend. Save jail for those who are really dangerous.

deliberately defiling their place of worship, is a hateful thing to do that offends actual, living people and makes our world decidedly shittier. And only makes the inequalities of sentences meted out to descrators of the varied religions of the UK more obvious:

£50 fine and 6 months referral, for breaking crosses and smearing shit over robes

Apologise to the congregation for painting sexual innuendo over a church

A Ghanain man vandalised Italian artefacts dating back to the ninth century, oops!

But it seems to be a consistent approach in the UK that people who combine bacon with mosques are jailed: 18 year old girls to Polish immigrants, all are criminalised... (a quick Google will find you more)

It matters not whether you think some punishments are too harsh or too lenient... what matters is that the obvious inequities only feed the fear, the hate.

it essentially says that religion's intolerance of dissent is legitimate

I don't get how throwing bacon at Muslims is dissent or how the court's judgment has anything to do with religious intolerance.

There has always been quite a lot of difference between what judges think are fitting sentences. I do think these people should have been given community service though, especially as the prisons are full to bursting.

really blanche

Exactly

Museumofcurry I'm not assuming anything. I have read the story, in which the caretaker said he was "traumatised and crushed".

This was a religiously aggravated hate crime and the sentence correctly reflects CPS guidance on this. It has nothing to do with just throwing bits of bacon around.

It is not a racially aggravated crime as being Muslim or Christian or Hindu is independent of race.

Burning poppies is deeply offensive. But it has neither a religious nor a racial connotation. Soldiers of all religions and none have died fighting for allied forces over the years.

tallula

Yes, and because he said it... it must be true?

OP I think a Venn diagram of "people attaching mosques" and "racists" would have quite a big overlap, don't you?

Which CPS guidance are you looking at, EleanorRigby?

Well, Christianity and Islam aren't equal, because we live in the post-WWII world.

Muslims are a minority. Aggression towards members of a minority religion and targeted desecration of a minority religion (Islam) that no-one in my family has ever followed sends chills down my spine in a way that yobs smashing the glass in the local church doesn't. I sigh, mutter to myself about the parents and cheap alcohol and stick a tenner in the fund for that. I don't fear it's symptomatic of anything greater than isolated little shits without ideology trying to stick it up to the Establishment

However, I worry that aggression towards Muslims may mean there is widespread background hostility who need to be shown that our regime does not accept this behaviour. I expect a lot of the judiciary of our culturally Christian country may feel the same way. Christianity is so enmeshed within our traditions, attacks on it don't have the same tang of persecution.

Themoreitsnowstiddlypom got it spot on on page 1.

"OP I think a Venn diagram of "people attaching mosques" and "racists" would have quite a big overlap, don't you?"

What's your point? You get sentenced for what you do, not what you are.

tallu
people attaching mosques" and "racists" would have quite a big overlap, don't you?

You mean like terrorists and Muslims...? Or grooming?

Or maybe we should simply stop generalising people!

My brother was assaulted and suffered a broken nose. His poor nose was literally crushed. The assailant was ordered to do community service and ordered to pay my brother £500.

Ofcourse with the Poles throwing bacon there is an element of religious hatred. I am sure the Muslims did feel scared. There might have been children in the mosque who would have been terrified. I don't know if the mosque has CCTV as maybe the attack was worse than it sounds.

I feel the justice system needs to focus on how best to rehabilate these young offenders. 18 years old is still a young offender. The two criminals have their whole lives ahead of them.

I think they sound like scum bags and don't know much about sentencing guidelines but am baffled by the local mum who got an unprovoked beating and saw her two attackers get a community sentence. I think I would be inclined to be quite punitive for acts of violence. This would be included too and I don't have a strong opinion on the sentence but wonder if a more fitting punishment could perhaps be community based. I never feel this would be the case for sustained, repeated verbal assaults or physical ones.

It's difficult. I have Muslim friends, but I think the pussyfooting around Muslims is getting silly. Our church rents a school and we have not been allowed to renew our contract on the basis of 'ideological differences' (basically the new Head does not like 'religion'). Wouldn't mind, but the Quran school which hires it out does not apparently offend. . I think the Head is just too scared to kick them out too. On MN too it seems ok to be quite abusive/ mocking to Christianity but should anyone say anything in the same vein against Muslims, they're jumped on (rightly so). It's a double standard which the so-called liberal middle classes think is ok, and I don't really understand it. There should be religious tolerance and respect for all religions.

in terms of other sentences, the so-called Muslim Patrol of Shoreditch got 17 months for these actions collectively - which I would argue isn't enough but it involves physical violence and I don't know what they would have got for the words?

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/dec/06/muslim-vigilantes-jailed-sharia-law-attacks-london

"Muslims are a minority. Aggression towards members of a minority religion and targeted desecration of a minority religion (Islam) that no-one in my family has ever followed sends chills down my spine in a way that yobs smashing the glass in the local church doesn't. "

Except that the people that did this are very obvious minorities also, so you can't really frame this as a majority vs minority issue.

Eight months is nothing its racial assult

Not racial, they were sentenced for religious assault and religious harrassment

"Eight months is nothing its racial assult"

Feelings have been hurt rather than actual people. No bones have been broken.

Throwing a piece of bacon at someone is hardly GBH. No one is saying the offence should go unpunished, but the age of the defendants and consistency with how other crimes are punished should be considered.

I feel the focus should be on rehabilating the offenders rather than a harsh sentence to please Muslims.