to think eight months in prison is a bit excessive for throwing bacon

[CondyLisa]

www.thesun.co.uk/news/2095440/two-polish-men-bombarded-london-mosque-with-tesco-bacon-after-oktoberfest-booze-binge/

"Blackfriars Crown Court heard that the pair had bought a packet of bacon at a Tesco after drinking heavily at the festival but could not remember going to the mosque on Sunday night, October 2.

Prosecutor Carol Summers said the mosque’s caretaker had at first thought the Polish pair were worshippers but was stunned when meat was thrown at him.

The men threw several rashers of bacon, also placing a third piece in the shoe of a worshipper."

They appear to have no prior offending history.

Obviously whether you are at a church, mosque or community centre, you shouldn't be hassled by drunken yobs and it is right that they should be punished, but this seems to be a de facto blasphemy sentence more than anything else.

I don't see that throwing bacon is more serious than, say, yobs ripping up flower beds that people have worked on, and which provide at least as much social utility as a place of worship - but the latter attracts a sentence of community service, whereas we have eight month prison sentence for some bacon.

I agree that those who commit violent crimes should have longer sentences. Perhaps we could start a campaign?

I think community service and a fine would have been better as I think prison should be reserved for violent offenders and those who are likely to re-offend but as that's not the way the system works then the 8 months seems fine to me.

Burning poppies is a different issue, poppies aren't a religious symbol, it wasn't directed personally at people. While stupid and thoughtless, I'd consider it a public protest, like burning a flag, rather than a crime.

All this stuff about Muslims not be a race, do people actually realise that there is no such thing as "race" in scientific terms?

Most of the Muslims I know are natives of the British Isles, but the people who hate Muslims to the point of desecrating their mosques and physically attacking them do so because they see them as another race.

I rather liked what Sandi Toksvig said about Denmark on QI. Apparently in Denmark it is illegal to burn any other nation's flag but you can torch as many Danish ones as you like.

Interesting about Denmark - can foreigners burn a Danish flag or is that not allowed?

@CondyLisa

In the CPS link I attached you will see that there are a range of sentencing options for religiously/racially motivated crime ranging from 14 years imprisonment at one end to a fine at the other.

Without all the details - (which you are unlikely to get from the Sun or the Mirror, that's why we have courts and judges,) - you cannot see exactly which category this fell in to - but most of the offences listed carry sentences ranging from a fine to two years imprisonment, so as I said in my original post this sounds entirely in keeping with the sentencing guidelines.

Racially/religiously aggravated fear/provocation of violence (s.31(1)(a) CDA) Crown Court - 2 years imprisonment
Magistrates' court - 6 months Magistrates' court - 6 months

It's easy to get caught up in the definitions of race or religion but those who hate them seem to manage to define them as a group.

Does anybody know how muslin manage after these attacks.

I suppose the mosque would need to be close, do they deep clean using a cleaning company or do special preys.

She didn't say.

Wiki says

In Denmark, it is illegal to desecrate the flags of foreign countries but legal to burn the Dannebrog, Denmark's national flag, according to section 110(e) of the Danish penal code[21] because Parliament had decided that burning other countries' flags was a matter of foreign policy, as it could be construed as a threat.

Burning poppies , I would say is an anti-British hate crime

Tbf I think 8 months in prison is a lot for a racially aggravated assult (first offence) the injuries were minimal so what's driven the sentence must be the racially aggravated element and that does seem high.

For example, I recently identified a man who sexually assaulted me (grope) and he then groped 3 other women. He wasn't prosecuted and even if he was, I wouldn't have expected him to be imprisoned for that period unless he had previous. They seem a similar level to me (hate against women hate against Muslims)

Of course, there may well be more to Their crime than reported

Absolutely disgusting they did this to the two men praying.
Eight months in prison excessive imo. A fine and a couple of months of community service.

@CondyLisa

Actually if it really was racially aggravated damage they could have received a much longer sentence

Racially/religiously aggravated damage (s.30(1) CDA) Crown Court - 14 years imprisonment
Magistrates' court - 6 months Crown Court - 10 years imprisonment
Magistrates' court - 3 months

Do you not see any irony in your mocking of Christianity in this thread

Do you not see the irony of that question?

When it turned out that three NON-Muslim women had also been set on fire in the same manner, so the target was 'women' as a class and not 'Muslims', the media lost all interest

Misogyny isn't news worthy.

I rather liked what Sandi Toksvig said about Denmark on QI. Apparently in Denmark it is illegal to burn any other nation's flag but you can torch as many Danish ones as you like.

Apparently they have to be dirty/damaged beforehand so as not to be in a state which could be used normally again before they can be burned.

Also you can't fly other countries' flags in Denmark (with a few exceptions).

I'm British and burning the flag or poppies wouldn't offend me. Or my parents, siblings, ILs, cousins ... I draw the line at Mary Berry.

Absolutely deserved. We need to crack down hard on hate crimes of any sort.

I am also British and you can burn the flag and poppies all you like. They're not only about remembering those who died in WWI, and some of us aren't interested in supporting other political stances they're being used as a symbol for.

Where's a Dane when you need one?

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/sep/10/misogyny-hate-crime-nottingham-police-crackdown

Maybe we'll live to see action against misogyny.

Even if you wear a poppy, it is still a symbol, and I hope we haven't become all American about our symbols. That would not be very British.

Why didn't the peace loving religious people simply forgive the bacon-throwers?

... as we forgive them bacon throwing against us?

"Does anybody know how muslin manage after these attacks.

I suppose the mosque would need to be close, do they deep clean using a cleaning company or do special preys."

It's not a scientific concept, you have things that are permanently unclean (pork, dogs, etc.) and things that are temporarily unclean (that have become touched by dogs, porks, etc.). In the latter case then the proscribed cleaning agent in Islam is water.

www.myreligionislam.com/detail.asp?Aid=6125

This is not related to bacteria or other factors that might be on the meat - but rather to medieval understanding of water that is clean and water that is dirty. People going to pray are also considered dirty and are required to clean thesmelves with water (wudu) from a clean source. Note that the requirement is the water is from the correct type of source, not that it actually is clean. For example, Islam's holiest water, coming from a particular well in Saudi Arabia, has been tested and found to be (scientifically speaking) unclean, however that doesn't concern the devout.

Hence putting bacon/pork onto a mosque or other place used by Muslims isn't actually the inconvenience that those doing it presumably hope - a pig's head on an office carpet would probably require deep cleaning with expensive machine in secular terms, but in religious terms the use of plain water is quitre sufficient, even if it is not actually visibly clean.

"Actually if it really was racially aggravated damage they could have received a much longer sentence

Racially/religiously aggravated damage (s.30(1) CDA)Crown Court - 14 years imprisonment"

Well no, they could not. You can't just say 'the maximum sentence for crime A is 14 years', without actually considering what the requirements are to earn that sentence.

14 years I guess would be something like razing a mosque to the ground. Not causing a bit of bacon juice to fall on the carpet.

For swine be the kingdom,
The pork and the glory,
For ever and ever ... Amen