To think that if you become a childminder you should not just take 'easy' children

[Introvertedbuthappy]

I go back to work in December and decided on a childminder to look after my baby for the three days a week I'll be working. As I started looking in September I was asked to pay £150 a month until then to hold the place (1 day a week's fees) and as part of that could obviously use that day as childcare (as it was already being paid for). All fine.
Since then he has been there 3.5 days (CM wanted to cut one day short to go on holiday at a day's notice). On Tuesday she called to say that she will no longer look after my 6.5 month old as he is 'a difficult baby', 'cries a lot' and 'needs a lot of attention'. She also described an incident where her 3 year old got so frustrated with my son's crying her child 'screamed in his face, which was distressing not only for yoyr son, but myself and my daughter'. She has 'never seen a baby like it' (not in a positive way).
I am both devastated and angry. He is generally a happy chap, does like a lot of stimulation, but is happy to roll around/jump in his jumparoo/chase a pack of wipes round, but does obviously need to be picked up sometimes (ie like a typical baby). He doesn't sleep much but is generally not grumpy with it.
I'm upset about a number of things - the screaming incident, the language used about my son to turn down the contract and the fact I've pissed £150 down the drain to hold a place I can't take up.
So, AIBU or should she have attempted to settle him better before branding him a 'difficult' baby?

You don't have a right to reserve a place for December and expect the CM to guarantee it for you for free because in the interim the CM is losing money by not taking on a different child. However, she knew quite quickly that it wasn't going to work out with this child and said so. No-one paid in advance so there is no loss to the OP. What was paid for was delivered.

Your better off without the CM. My CM had my daughter for a morning, she would not accept payment for this, before confirming she would take her on. She wanted to see she fitted with the other children, and presumably how easy DD is/was.

Car analogy is shit because you weren't 'buying' anything but time. If you were going to rent your car out and someone said they wanted to rent it but not until December, you would be within your rights to ask for payment that compensated you for not renting it to someone else in the meantime. If that person then took your car out for a spin and for whatever reason you were unhappy with the condition of the car on its return, meaning you no longer wished to rent it to them, you would be entirely within your rights to not accept any more of their money and look instead for another customer who you were happier with. You would have no right to ask for money back for the days on which you took the car out.

So despite signing a contract for 3 days a week from December start date, that is no guarantee of the place and i just have to suck up paying a pointless 3.5 days of ad hoc childcare I never needed as a contingency on retaining that place?
Wow. Good to know, I would have gone to a nursery straight away if I'd known that signing a contract and paying a retainer was not a 'right to reserve a place'. Thanks for that.

Sorry, they would have no right.

I don't gree that what was paid for was delivered.

I don't believe the OP was paying to hold space in a CM's in October.

Neither, it seems, did she.

It's a good thing you made use of the childcare she asked you to pay fir when you didn't need it, otherwise I'm sure you woukd have heard nothing about your psychopathic baby until she's got another month's "retainer" out of you for a place that didn't exist.

Of course you didn't have a guaranteed place. You had a place that was contingent on things working out, exactly as you would have had in December. The only difference is you had to pay for her to hold a place open for you at all, because otherwise she could have taken on a different child in October.

I'm sure your contract said "only if I feel like it at the time" in big letters on the front

Trifle they were technically 'buying' the time in the garage . Saying I would keep it for them, allowing them to borrow it once a week and then selling it to someone else as I didn't like the way they drove the car is analogous.
However, again, my point was that far fetched analogies about psychopathic horses were equally unhelpful.

DoinItFine: Okay, so if the OP wasn't paying for the place to be held open in October, does that mean you think the CM should have held that place open for free?

Notice is one month

I think that this is the part where the CM has been unprofessional. She should have given you one months notice. But do you really want her to do that? It would cost you another £150. But she's still within her right to cancel the contract if she feels it's not working out.

Is the first month a no-notice month? I usually agree this with parents that either party can terminate with no notice during the first month to ensure no-one is tied into a contract that doesn't work. It also enables the arrangement to be tweaked to better fit hours and other arrangements.

A retainer really isn't sharp practice and certainly isn't exclusive to childminding - nurseries will do exactly the same. In fact, that analogy is probably the best: a nursery holding open a place for a new child that doesn't want it yet, then finding out during the settling in period that the arrangement is not going to work. As I said, I've taken on children to whom this has happened and surely any parent wants to find the best childcare solution for her child?

So Trifle, the contract isn't worth the paper it's written on then; no place, no notice etc. I am really glad I've gone with a nursery now!

Contingent on things "working out"

A scammer's charter.

Who defines "working out" - the person who has taken money on the basis that their contract means something.

The word 'psychopathic' has distracted you from the basic point about the horse, which is definitely analogous. For whatever reason, the CM knew it wasn't going to work out. You had paid her, not for a service in December which she then refused to provide, but for not offering that same service elsewhere during October. I think this is fairly obvious now!

By all means, post the wording of the contract if you haven't already. It seems fairly clear to me that the CM isn't in breach of it based on what you have said.

Budgie, you're right - I don't want the one month's notice. I was responding to the posters who asked why I thought she wouldn't have additional mindees already, or that if I was unhappy I would continue the arrangement regardless (I wouldn't but would obviously have to pay notice).

This scammer actually thought she was doing the OP a favour by not charging her a month's notice for a service she withdrew

Absolute bullshit artist.

Retainers in other industries are refunded as standard if the person who was retained does not provide the service they were retained for at the tike specified.

I think these special CM "retainers" are a bit like how they are self-employed but want to be paid for their holidays likevan employee.

It's just a word that isn't deposit, because everyone knows you have to return a deposit if you back out.

Wow there an awful lot of assumptions on this thread!

The childminder looked after the child for 3.5 days and presumably, since the op hasn't said she was unhappy at collection time, has tried to settle the child without making a big deal of it to the parent for at least two of those days before it became too much for them all?

A 3 year old screaming at the baby to stop crying isn't nice but clearly just shows how consistent the crying had been, and the 3 year old was, well just being a 3 year old. The fact that the childminder used this incident to portray how bad the crying had been says a lot because clearly it would have been more beneficial to her to not mention it at all.

The children I mind come term time only because there are cheaper alternatives available to the parents at holiday clubs etc. However, I charge a retainer during the holidays (which the parents are welcome to use but mostly don't) to protect their place for the new term. The retainer is non-negotiable and non-refundable regardless of whether it's used or not.

I have been minding for 17 years. I have had two children that I have had to terminate the contracts for in all that time. The first was a 4 year old who would not move from the front door and screamed the house down for 4 days solid whilst trying to escape - I terminated on the 5th day but kept the 4 days money that he had been with me. The other was a boy of 7 who I terminated after a term because he disrupted the house so badly that it was unfair on the other children - if the parent had been honest about his behaviour in the first place we may, or may not, have been better prepared and able to make it work. I have been in childcare for 40 years ands it's not a good feeling admitting that these two children were just not right for my home.

And anyone who thinks there aren't difficult children, or spats, or kicking, biting, screaming, and falling out at some point in every form of childcare setting is delusional.

Well Trifle, the contract is dated start date in December, lists the days that care will be provided and will now clearly not happen. Good to know that you think she is totally justified in it all though.

It's just a word that isn't deposit, because everyone knows you have to return a deposit if you back out

It's a word that isn't a deposit, because IT'S NOT A DEPOSIT.

The retainer is non-negotiable and non-refundable regardless of whether it's used or not.

So would you try to charge your retainer for the summer holidays when you were not planning to work after the holidays?

Take the retainers, give a month's notice in July.

Leave everyone fucked for childcare in September nd you've pocketed money for a service you did not provide.

The "retainer" being oaid to retain a place for the following school year.

Because I have seen that scam pulled.

And I think it's similar.

To be honest a 'retainer' payment is not generally used. I think this is where your case is a bit muddy. A retainer is literally only to keep the space open and yes if cm has decided not to take little one on then yes definitely I would expect a retainer to be paid back. HOWEVER, you have actually used some of the space so I would say the cm is entitled to keep that for hours worked. If you had used the retainer to only save the space there would have been no question in my opinion but like I said that is usually only a payment to reserve space and you've been using approximately what you've been spending. Personally I offer a couple of settling in sessions free of charge but can't imagine how a childminder can decide a child isnt a good fit so soon tbh. I think it takes a little while for them to settle and to get to know them a bit. Still I cant ever see myself giving up on a child, it is easy to get them to fit in to a particular setting.

Doinit. Seen as you have such strong opinions about us scam artist childminders and our money grabbing retainers and contracts, what arrangement do you think would have been fair to keep a place? By the way, I don't know any childminders that charge for their holidays, I never have.

Well it's clearly not a retainer either, as no place has been retained and the contract it was based on has been cancelled at zero notice by the person who was paid to be retained.