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Original poster

To think Toby Young deserves scorn for this article?

510 replies

BowieFan · 25/10/2016 19:11

Apologies for linking to the Daily Mail, but I've used a service that denies them advertising revenue: <a class="break-all" href="https://anonym.to/?www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3869182/Why-Lefties-misty-eyed-movie-romanticises-Benefits-Britain-says-TOBY-YOUNG.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">anonym.to/?www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3869182/Why-Lefties-misty-eyed-movie-romanticises-Benefits-Britain-says-TOBY-YOUNG.html

Aside from the basic errors (it's 100minutes long, not nearly 3 hours), it's just an awful article. The fact that Toby Young thinks everyone claiming benefits is a smoking/gambling/drinking loudmouth is just offensive. I'm shocked - not that it was published - but that he thinks his opinion is the opinion of everyone.

I'd love to see him survive on benefits. I wonder if he'd be saying the same things then?

OP posts:
holme4andy · 26/10/2016 16:32

Thank you Dawn..

holme4andy · 26/10/2016 16:33

Sorry posted on wrong thread

smallfox2002 · 26/10/2016 16:54

Toby Young also stepped down from running his school, and admitted that the job was far more difficult than he had imagined.

Schadenfreude is a lovely emotion isn't it?

Gowgirl · 26/10/2016 16:56

Sounds about as uplifting as the Magdalene sisters.....completely misses the point....

HopeClearwater · 26/10/2016 17:41

I came on to say what smallfox said ... It's a lot harder to run a school than I thought, said Toby.
Well no shit, Sherlock. Maybe leave it to the education authorities and headteachers who've been doing it for years, with all kinds of kids walking in in September, not just the chosen few who were going to be sent to Eton or Westminster or wherever while still in utero...

user1471446905 · 26/10/2016 17:57

bowiefan - you said
'One of the best moments of my life was a woman walking into the food bank with a literal trolley full of shopping. She said she'd seen about food banks on the news and was shocked that our town even needed one and she went out and did a huge shop. That one woman brought us enough to give 4 families a 3 day food parcel each. I wish I could run into her again, she has made a difference to those families.'

Given that you volunteer at a food bank I think you said (apols if I have confused you with someone else), why don't you bring the big trolley of food in every day rather than waiting to run into the woman again?

HelenaDove · 26/10/2016 18:04

sleepyowl A private pension is no guarantee either.

A whole generation got screwed over regarding these.

HillaryFTW · 26/10/2016 18:08

I haven't read it, but scorning Toby Young is always sound.

Dawndonnaagain · 26/10/2016 18:10

Given that you volunteer at a food bank I think you said (apols if I have confused you with someone else), why don't you bring the big trolley of food in every day rather than waiting to run into the woman again?
User, I think you have misunderstood. What Bowiefan meant was that she wanted to thank the woman and let her know that she changed lives (albeit briefly) with the gesture.
It's really quite rude to suggest that somebody brings in a trolley full of food each time they volunteer and I'm it's very obvious that Bowiefan does what she can to help. I am saying this very gently whilst bearing in mind your diagnosis, not telling you off.

YvaineStormhold · 26/10/2016 18:11

userfuckingmassiveloadofnumbers

  1. Maybe bowiefan would like to run into the woman to thank her.
  2. Maybe bowiefan can afford to give up her time, but doesn't have the spare cash.

Sheesh.

user1471446905 · 26/10/2016 18:13

dawn - i don't have a diagnosis and i haven't misunderstood! It's not rude to suggest that someone put their money where their mouth is so to speak. Bowiefan has made a big show on this thread about how she pays high taxes but would like to/be happy to pay more, I am simply asking why she doesn't take action to that effect.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 26/10/2016 18:21

Meh fromthetree is right

People vent line crazy and if the person is MN-hate-accepted it's allowed

I slagged off the school (and if I was a cxxt-
please say ) but personal name calling and posting nude photos is a bit off

Well said

BoinkAlongQuietly · 26/10/2016 18:22

What? Confused

BoinkAlongQuietly · 26/10/2016 18:24

userfuckingmassiveloadofnumbers
Perhaps bowie is putting her/his money where her mouth is by working in a food bank? Giving up her time? It's more than most do, isn't it?

Original poster
BowieFan · 26/10/2016 18:33

user1471446905

I meant I wanted to thank her. Chances are she has no idea what a difference she made.

I donate 20 hours a month to the food bank and do two big shops a month for them as well. I wish I could do more, but the food bank put a limit on what we ourselves could donate as they felt we were taking on too much responsibility as volunteers. I also make a donation every month to homeless charities.

OP posts:
Original poster
BowieFan · 26/10/2016 18:34

Meh stopfuckingshoutingatme Toby posted that photo himself in an article he wrote. If he didn't want it floating around the internet, he shouldn't have taken it and put it on an article.

OP posts:
Original poster
BowieFan · 26/10/2016 18:36

fromthetree

It's nothing like the hatred you see on the Daily Mail. The Daily Mail is taking potshots at everyone and demonising entire sets of people. We aren't doing that, we're just taking issue with a newspaper which has historically published so much rubbish and nastiness, as well as columnists who continue to push this view that anyone on benefits is feckless and workshy.

OP posts:
Original poster
BowieFan · 26/10/2016 18:39

user1471446905

I spend 20 hours a month at the food bank.
Two food shops a month for the food bank.
25 hours a month at the CAB.
We donate £75 a month to Oxfam
£75 to a local homeless charity
£75 to Help for Heroes
DP also volunteers at the food bank
DP drives the minibus twice a month that helps elderly and disabled people get to appointments/shops
I help run a regular coffee morning at our local community centre, open to all.

This is whilst I hold down a job as a Head of Department in a school (working 30 hours a week).

What more can I do?

OP posts:
user1471446905 · 26/10/2016 18:48

bowiefan - well you could quite possible double or triple all those donations. donate daily to another food bank if yours won't accept it! I am not saying I think you should do these things but it is disingenuous to suggest you are doing all possible. You, like everyone else, is giving what they feel is the right amount, some of that we have no choice over (taxes) some we do (charitable donations) but don't act as if you are morally superior because some others draw the line in a different place to you.

You described someone as subhuman for saying they begrudged paying taxes, I begrudge paying taxes, not because I don't want to help the vulnerable members of society but because I think governments should be smaller not bigger and that they are generally pretty atrocious at spending money in an efficient way. There is not just one way to be moral.

Dawndonnaagain · 26/10/2016 18:54

user1471446905 and herein lies the problem with people using 'user number' names. Apologies I thought you were another poster.
You're still fucking rude. Bowie doesn't have to justify anything to you. I bet you'd expect me to justify my benefit spending too. You know, make sure I'm worthy and not spending on booze and fags and tawdry trinkets...

user1471446905 · 26/10/2016 18:55

dawndonna -slight overreaction there!

PermenantLurker · 26/10/2016 18:59

Doing all that is possible is a relative term

Subhuman for not paying taxes is surely meant in the context of this thread & pp's comments

Being pedantic about these points is just a way of derailing the topic

-sure you don't need me to say this op but user whatever numbers comment is irritating at best

Dawndonnaagain · 26/10/2016 19:00

I don't think bowiefan is acting in a morally superior manner. I do think Hiro was pretty awful though. Others too.

smallfox2002 · 26/10/2016 19:14

Ah well have a small government type here.

Usually the ones that want spending on what they want ad a priority and fuck everyone else.

Governments can be good at spending money, the NHS is highly.efficient for example

Original poster
BowieFan · 26/10/2016 19:18

user1471446905

I said it was subhuman to leave the country because you begrudge paying taxes - which it is. It's fine to not like paying them and grumble about them, but to leave the country over it? That's subhuman.

Yes, I probably could double or triple those amounts. But my son is disabled himself. I am paying into a fund for him because in the future his condition might get worse. I am also overpaying the mortgage every month because I do not want to be at the mercy of the Tories if I ever become ill. We're only 18 months away from finishing that.

I could donate to another foodbank, but there are none in the area. I think donating my time and money is very valuable, even if you think it's not.

I'm sorry that you think I'm not doing enough. If I had more hours in the day, I would absolutely do more.

I'm not acting morally superior, just that people should not be moaning about their taxes going towards benefits. They certainly shouldn't use that as an excuse to leave the country - that disgusts me. Imagine the position we'd be in if previous generations felt like sodding off and not paying their taxes.

OP posts:
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