To think Toby Young deserves scorn for this article?

[BowieFan]

Apologies for linking to the Daily Mail, but I've used a service that denies them advertising revenue: <a class="break-all" href="https://anonym.to/?www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3869182/Why-Lefties-misty-eyed-movie-romanticises-Benefits-Britain-says-TOBY-YOUNG.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">anonym.to/?www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3869182/Why-Lefties-misty-eyed-movie-romanticises-Benefits-Britain-says-TOBY-YOUNG.html

Aside from the basic errors (it's 100minutes long, not nearly 3 hours), it's just an awful article. The fact that Toby Young thinks everyone claiming benefits is a smoking/gambling/drinking loudmouth is just offensive. I'm shocked - not that it was published - but that he thinks his opinion is the opinion of everyone.

I'd love to see him survive on benefits. I wonder if he'd be saying the same things then?

I should also add that in two years, DP will be leaving the RAF and taking up a position on the local Search and Rescue helicopter team. Presumably we'll be 'giving back' enough then?

I'd disregard user bowie, your fine, she's a right winger.

Jesus, Bowie don't justify yourself. You don't come across as morally superior.

Those who denigrate the poor, disabled, elderly and infirm and begrudge them a meagre existence supported by the public funds (as should be the case in any civilised society) are inhumane. Why the fuck they don't mind the public funds being channeled to the wealthy is beyond me.

bowie - as I said in my last post it's not a matter of me thinking you don't do 'enough' all i was doing was pointing out that everyone will have their own version of 'enough' and there is nothing to say your 'enough' is better or worse than anyone else's. We all make our choices and within a certain range they are all morally acceptable. I certainly was not suggesting I think you personally should do more but if you bring your personal circumstances into threads they will be discussed IME.

Thank you both! She just touched a nerve with me because I wish I could do more, but I suppose we all feel like that.

smallfox - I am guessing that you are trying to use right-winger in a pejorative fashion, if so, that says more about you than me.

user1471446905

But I never mentioned that people weren't doing "enough" - just that I really don't like people ducking out of their civic responsibilities by leaving the country because they don't like how their taxes are spent.

My main gripe is the fact that a tiny amount of money is claimed by fraudsters in benefits, but every other person is being treated harshly because of the perception (furthered by articles like the one by TY) that benefit fraud is rife. To coin an analogy, the welfare cuts are like punishing the whole class because of one naughty child.

Honestly, you could donate all your vital organs to strangers and someone would still sniffly try and cut you down to size! You do loads, more than 90% of the population and certainly more than me.

User your posts to bowie tell me all I need to know about you.

B

I think you should concentrate on what more you yourself can do to help, user1471446905

I'm not clicking on the link but couldn't pass by the opportunity to states, yes indeed, imo Toby Young is an odious shit of an individual.

bowiefan - apologies if that was not your intention, I read a certain moral superiority in your posts but I am happy to say I may have been mistaken. I conversely would say that if you don't like the way things are being done then leaving the country is the best thing you can do, better than staying and complaining IMO!

WRT to benefit fraud I think one of the issues is that whilst fraud levels are very low the definition of disability has been hugely expanded over the last 20 years and covers many condition that 'the man on the street' may to consider to be a disability. Therefore when people are talking about fraud they are actually referring to claimants who have a valid claim but they 'the man on the street' wouldn't consider it a 'real' disability. This is not my view but I think it is something that helps explain the mismatch between the figures and the perception of some of the public.

Bowie does all that and she gets told to do more?!

Fucking hell.

Oh and user when you come out with the small government thing yes I do use right wing in the pejorative sense, because like all right wingers you only want government to meet your interests, mainly because of your own comfortable position rather than for the best interests of society as a whole.

In the main, I'm with Nye Bevan on my opinion of you lot.

user the fact is that due to advances in medical science and treatments many babies with certain conditions now survive childbirth and early childhood when decades ago they didnt.

Are you saying that the opposite should still be the case?

smallfox - really? what exactly are you basing that on? Or are you just making wild generalisations? You know nothing about me or my position, but don't let that stop you from piling in! I forgot you must be a left winger and therefore some kind of angel from above who will always put society first!

helena - not saying that in any way shape or form, more suggesting a possible explanation for the mismatch between public perceptions and the figures.

Well you made your point about smaller government which betrays your political beliefs.

You know nothing about Bowie but were rude and disparaging to her, yet you're complaining when I have a pop at you.

Hypocrite.

smallfox - yes i believe in smaller govt what you choose to wildly extrapolate from that is up to you.
I know about bowie what she has chosen to share on this thread and that is what I commented on! I am sure she is quite capable of engaging on her own behalf.

I don't give a shit about you having a pop at me as you put it, I just wonder about the point you are trying to make as it is unclear. Or is it just a version of shouting 'tory cunts' at every opportunity whilst failing to engage in any sort of debate.

Well ive given you a possible explanation.

helena - it's not me you have to convince! As I said, it's not my view but it is one I have heard expressed.

HelenaDove

Completely agree with you. I couldn't give two flying fucks what the "man on the street" thinks counts as a disability. He isn't a healthcare professional, is he? Ultimately the right wing press and the government cares though, so they get held up as being the views of the "majority" which they aren't.

To bring up my epileptic client - he is alive purely because of medical science advancing. He was born in 1976 - if he had been born even 30/40 years earlier, he would've been considered freakish because medicine didn't understand what epilepsy was. It wasn't all that long ago that a bloody prince was locked away because he was epileptic. My DS2 is on the spectrum and again, he gets DLA but his disability is invisible. Doesn't mean he's not disabled, but of course unless you're in a wheelchair that doesn't matter to the hypothetical "man on the street".

A close friend of mine is epileptic. Back in the 80s she was sent to what was then called Special Help lessons even though her maths was fantastic simply because of her epilepsy.

user1471446905

As I said, I don't automatically hate Tories. I hate anyone who makes sweeping generalisations and denegrates a section of society without doing some basic research. I do think people who voted Tory should be made aware that these welfare cuts are what they voted for - they can't complain when the Tories get bored of cutting from the poor and disabled and then they start going after everybody else.

Tory voters had chance to vote for something different - even bloody UKIP weren't advocating austerity. People voted for the Tories because of the misguided idea that the poor were to blame for the recession, not the banks, and as a result we needed to make the poor suffer some more under the guise of "austerity".

bowiefan - I think the problem is that you say it's simply the view of the media and govt not the 'majority' but the polling doesn't back you up. My guess would be that the media portrayal has a fairly hefty hand in shaping the opinion of 'the public' hence the polling results. Again not saying it's right but it does explain the mismatch.

Do you feel films like Daniel Blake will help the public perceptions or simply be seen as some on this thread have said as Corbyn propaganda?