To think Toby Young deserves scorn for this article?

[BowieFan]

Apologies for linking to the Daily Mail, but I've used a service that denies them advertising revenue: <a class="break-all" href="https://anonym.to/?www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3869182/Why-Lefties-misty-eyed-movie-romanticises-Benefits-Britain-says-TOBY-YOUNG.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">anonym.to/?www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3869182/Why-Lefties-misty-eyed-movie-romanticises-Benefits-Britain-says-TOBY-YOUNG.html

Aside from the basic errors (it's 100minutes long, not nearly 3 hours), it's just an awful article. The fact that Toby Young thinks everyone claiming benefits is a smoking/gambling/drinking loudmouth is just offensive. I'm shocked - not that it was published - but that he thinks his opinion is the opinion of everyone.

I'd love to see him survive on benefits. I wonder if he'd be saying the same things then?

see what Imean, its either one view of the other. BOTH exist

Yes and no stopfuckingshouting.

I would never deny that there are an irritating minority of shysters and players in ALL walks of life. But they are a minority and trying to legislate them out of existence doesn't work.

Further; trying to legislate them out of existence by punishing the blameless majority is plain wrong.

So, of course different types of people exist, but you have to pick a side as far as this evil regime is concerned. And it is an evil regime.

Ken Loach did the research
Apart from which where you live has little to do with awareness.

I've just looked at Jack Monroe's twitter. The DWP pulled her up for stating that twenty more people died after being found fit for work than their stats say. Out of THOUSANDS. One person in this position is too many, surely? They are utterly shameless.

stopfuckingshouting

Ken Loach did research. The writer of the film does not live in Islington but in Scotland and has been an active campaigner against poverty for 20 years. The scenes were shot at an actual foodbank in the North East featuring real people.

Do you really think he's in a bubble? Where you live does not mean you are disqualified from having an opinion or a point of view. Do I have to live in a slum to realise that disabled and poor people are being murdered and abused every day by the government?

Briarthorn

Goes to show exactly how heartless the DWP are. Jack is fantastic, they don't like the fact that she is able to fight their propaganda and that there is such a vocal campaigner who has actually been a victim of them.

As a counterbalance, we are very proud additional rate tax payers who use private education and mostly private healthcare. We stay here because of the care afforded to those who are on hard times, we believe in the social systems and we know that social mobility in the UK is the (2nd) lowest in the developing world and that child poverty is rampant and we bloody well let our DC know that they will work half as hard to get twice as far in their lives simply by happy accident of their birth and they had never better think that they live in a meritocracy because they don't.

I am proud to pay taxes of 45% as a moral choice because yes we could domicile abroad and have more disposable income as do many of our friends who dole out their days in the UK very carefully so as to not pay tax.

What makes us angry is that our 45% tax actually isn't going to those who need it, it is being given to those who play fast and lose in our banking system, subsiding tax dodging by corporations and tax dodging by the super rich (of which London is a haven for - more super rich than any other city in the world). And our money fucking subsidises the fuckers.

To those of you on hard times, I hope you find your way through, I don't deceive myself I will never walk in your shoes.

Boink.

We are exactly that BoinkAlongQuietly DP has been offered very well paying in the private sector abroad, and I could get a better paying job than I have now. We are choosing to stay here and pay 45% tax because it's our civic duty. We will pay far more in than we ever take out, but we don't care. This is our home and we do not begrudge helping those who are less fortunate than we are. Me and DP are higher tax payers purely through luck - we are not harder workers than many people who aren't as well off as we are, we were just lucky.

It saddens me that people like Hiro exist - anyone who chooses to leave the country purely because they begrudge paying tax should be disgusted.

Genuine question - what are the govt spending on, instead of welfare for the needy?

The mix of an ageing population, a global recession, BREXIT, indicated an economic decline (and its going to get worse) means that the poor suffer - I say that not to be heartless or flippant but there will simply be less money in the pot for them.

unemployment has massively fallen if you look here
www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peoplenotinwork/outofworkbenefits

Yes, Bowie it saddens me too. They are the kind of people who will gladly live in gated communities while the poor live in squalor and die at their doorstep as is the case in many developing countries.

What annoys me even more is that we are apparently needing to save money an capping benefits at a low amount, but MPs have just voted to give themselves a raise to £84,000 a year plus expenses. Why aren't people complaining about that instead of benefits?

IDS sat there taking £30 a week from disabled people whilst he ate his £39 breakfast that we paid for. How people didn't riot over that I'll never know.

stopfucking, supporting banks, trident, reducing corporate tax by to less than 15% to apparently ensure that Brexit has less impact. Brexit. The rich get rich, the poor poorer, that has always been the Tory modus operandi.

An increased NMW would shift some of what is currently a public bill onto employers stopfuckingshouting. As it is the taxpayer is subsidising sub-survivable wages for low pay jobs because the political will doesn't exist to oblige employers to pay a survivable wage (Osborne has cynically corrupted the meaning of 'Living Wage' so I won't use that term.)

Similarly, closing the tax loopholes and so on that the amoral wealthy profit handsomely from (the type that Boink references) would net far more for the taxpayer than grabbing essential food from the mouths of the poor. But, again, that's nor the prevailing ideology of this government.

It's not that there isn't a better way to tackle these issues, it's just that the Conservatives have their own agenda.

Bowie a thirty nine quid breakfast? How the hell does that happen, that's two weeks food budget and more!

stopfucking even the landed gentry get benefits - per capita far more than any person in genuine need

Dawndonnaagain

Here's the story about his £39 breakfast: www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/iain-duncan-smith-claimed-breakfast-1810086

He also advocated giving benefits to people on cash cards that could only be used at "approved places" despite his House of Commons account being suspended because he hadn't paid the £1000 bill in over a year.

He claimed for a £9 cocktail as well as a mini-bar bill too. Oh and when he was Tory leader, he genuinely tried to claim for the cost of Underpants (which was rejected).

Boink and. Bowiefan thank you for still thinking of those less fortunate.

I also think for those who work and see someone on benefits with a similar disposable income currently it might help to remember someone on long term benefits is not building up any security. They are not paying into a pension and they are not paying off a mortage so they will never owe property. I appreciate some on minimum wage may also not earn enough to pay into a pension or get on the property ladder, but some who have similar disposable income to someone on benefits may be building up security. Years on benefits will guarantee no security in old age.

Toby Young must be a great disappointment to his parents. Don't give him the clicks.

What is REALLY disgusting is people like Hiro bugger off to tax havens, vilify those worse off through no fault of their own, THEN when they get older and realise their beloved tax haven won't support them when THEY are old and sick return to the UK (where they haven't paid tax or NI for possibly decades) and receive free healthcare, pension, pension tax credits, winter fuel payments, nursing home care etc. But yea I'M a scrounger!

Regards MP's expenses etc - give THEM a Ltd use prepaid card for genuine out of pocket expenses only, military single person style accommodation in London as necessary, EVERYTHING ELSE (clothes, bills, food) comes out their wages like every other working person.

And yes agree the use of tax credits to subsidise tight, tax avoiding, hugely profitable companies is also disgusting.

Yes there's 2 sides to every argument but whenever and wherever i've seen this discussed those supportive of those of us in the benefits trap accept there is a MINORITY of less than genuine people, whereas those supporting the 'all claimants are lying scrounger's narrative refuse to discuss the evidence of how few people are cheating the system.

No system is perfect but surely we have to START from a perspective of compassion?

Exactly. I am completely accepting of the fact that there are fraudulent claims, but they are a tiny amount. We are losing far money to HMRC cocking up payments, the DWP underpaying people and tax evasion on a large scale. People on the other side of the argument start from the "Everyone should be demonised because a few people are abusing the system."

There are wonderful people out there though. Somebody read this thread and is sending me some wool. How incredible, kind and amazing is that!
A totally anonymous person on an internet site demonstrating such incredible empathy.

Donna, the generosity of strangers has never failed to surprise and make me cry in equal amounts

One of the best moments of my life was a woman walking into the food bank with a literal trolley full of shopping. She said she'd seen about food banks on the news and was shocked that our town even needed one and she went out and did a huge shop. That one woman brought us enough to give 4 families a 3 day food parcel each. I wish I could run into her again, she has made a difference to those families.

Just like the fact that Harold Wilson decimated the coal industry & shut double the amount of pits as Thatcher, forgetting that the heinous & despicable spending policies of the government we had in power between 1997-2010 nearly fucked the country over, just like Callaghan's Labour government did in the 70's, turning a blind eye to the fact that the Conservative party are forever clearing up the lefts mess doesn't suit a lot of people's agenda.
I think the article was reactionary shite but, the fact of the matter is that Tony Blair is the only left wing politician to have won & lead a country off the back of a GE in over 40 years.

erm, it's a myth about Labour spending up until 2010. Osbourne spent more in his first couple of years than the whole of the Labour tenure. There are some really wonderful fact checking sites that you can access to demonstrate your points TheNaze. Tory rhetoric doesn't wash to well with those of us who are feeling the cold.