To think Toby Young deserves scorn for this article?

[BowieFan]

Apologies for linking to the Daily Mail, but I've used a service that denies them advertising revenue: <a class="break-all" href="https://anonym.to/?www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3869182/Why-Lefties-misty-eyed-movie-romanticises-Benefits-Britain-says-TOBY-YOUNG.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">anonym.to/?www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3869182/Why-Lefties-misty-eyed-movie-romanticises-Benefits-Britain-says-TOBY-YOUNG.html

Aside from the basic errors (it's 100minutes long, not nearly 3 hours), it's just an awful article. The fact that Toby Young thinks everyone claiming benefits is a smoking/gambling/drinking loudmouth is just offensive. I'm shocked - not that it was published - but that he thinks his opinion is the opinion of everyone.

I'd love to see him survive on benefits. I wonder if he'd be saying the same things then?

I spent 10 years in a Central Govt policy unit, so perhaps that may have me some insight into how things were going Sorry but this made me laugh. I also work in a central govt policy unit, and its relationship to 'real life' is tenuous at best. Central govt is led by people from the very top strata of society, and most people who work there have very little experience of life outside. I definitely get my understanding of 'how things were going' elsewhere, and try to inject it into my work in the ivory tower of central govt.

Anyway, Dontpanicpyke you asked who Toby Young's parents were. His mother was Sasha Moorsom, one of the BBC's first women producers, a writer, and a social activist. His father was Michael Young who was a sociologist and social pioneer (I think he started the Open University and lots of other stuff besides). He became a Labour peer.

I don't normally save people the effort of googling but I thought this might be interesting for the thread

Indigenous? Why just them Hiro?

Hiro, did you really make the decision to change your whole life so you could get away from benefits claimants?

You just need to decide what kind of society you want to live in don't you?

One that helps everyone because some people are old, sick, infirm, disabled etc etc.

Or one that kicks people like that to the kerb.

Yes a tiny minority might play a good fair system.

But I still know what kind of society I want to live in and encourage my children to build.

I don't want this 'hard working people vs scroungers' rhetoric passed on to my kids. Because I don't want them to grow up to be cuts.

That's 'cunts'

Both from solid working class backgrounds too, both comp educated just your average punters really.
Well, that was obvious from your posts, but I don't see what your social clambering has to do with your heinous untruths, oh hang on a minute...

By way of contrast.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/26/fit-for-work-disability-cuts-bureaucracy-daniel-blake

Who works in a central govt policy unit and needs to get away from benefit scroungers? Nothing to see here except thousands of Oxbridge-educated policy wonks, Westminster School posh boys and tourists...

I think it was the benefit scroungers they would trip over on the way to work. Able bodied people lying around on pavements shouting 'I feel weak! Oh so weak!' and then swigging champagne and smoking gauloises. A terrible gauntlet to have to run each morning on your way to your hard working jobs.

Social clambering? Not us. And yes we did leave the UK because we were ground down by the level of taxation. I'm not ashamed to say that. DH was convinced that Labour would win the 2015 GE so we packed up. There are plenty of people out there like us. What untruths are there in my posts? Not all UK benefit claimants are the 'virtuous, deserving poor' as Toby says in his piece. Plenty of women I went to school with have never worked, live in social housing and have more than 3 kids. We don't want to pay for that, so we left.

Hirosleaftunnel

And good riddance to you. Anyone who begrudges paying tax is subhuman, to me. I pay lots of tax and I still think I don't pay enough.

No, they're not all the virtuous working poor. But many are, some are disabled, some are unemployed for the first time in their life, some have left education and can't get a job because they're overqualified and a TINY amount are gaming the system.

As for those women, considering we have an aging population, I think it's probably a good thing that there are women choosing to have babies. We're going to need them. I'd rather they sit looking after children than be stuck in a zero hours job that means they might actually end up claiming more money in tax credits and in-work benefits.

I would pay for a thousand of them over one person like you. You disgust me.

conserve

The only benefits claimants Hirosleaftunnel sees are the ones she sees as she steps over them to get to work as they say "Oh please miss, I need more coppers to pay for my champagne and foie gras!"

I'd say she sees the Channel 5 propaganda, but I imagine she has had the button for that channel removed from her remote just in case she ever accidentally sees a working class person.

Oh hiros is just your standard-issue, "I'm alright Jack" arsehole.

She things that because she has intelligence and good health, everyone else should pull themselves up by their bootstraps and become healthy, higher rate tax payers too.

Of course she wouldn't want to pay cleaners, shampooists, hospital porters, bin men, waiters etc the kind of wage that would square that circle, but pah, someone else can sort out the details, she's too busy feeling superior.

She thinks that...

Nip back and join me for my food bank shift on Friday hiros. Or would it mess with your sneering to meet some of the 1000s of decent people (many of them in FT work or carers) who have been reduced to taking charity?

Plenty of women I went to school with have never worked, live in social housing and have more than 3 kids. We don't want to pay for that, so we left.
Anecdote does not fact create. Empirical evidence please.
And yes dear, social clambering, as in we're solidly working class but the 'naice' folk vote Tory and that's what we shall do. As I said, obvious from your postings.

I hope that the proverbial door didn't hit your arse on the way out, hiro.
You could always read my PIP thread if you need more evidence from someone who's actually been there, rather that Margo Ledbetteresque pronouncements on scroungers. Actually, forget that. Although Margo was a terrible snob, she had a good heart when it mattered. That might be lost on you.

Yes, would you like to come and shadow me for a day at the CAB, Hiro? Then you can tell people that you left the UK because you were sick of "paying" for people like "them"?

Or if you want, I can take you to our local foodbank, where my entire family volunteers. I have seen people from all walks of life who have had to rely on them. I hope it never happens to you, but if it does, maybe you'll finally realise just how selfish your attitude is.

Exactly IwasateenagePIPassessor she's nothing like Margo or even Mrs Bucket. They had a heart. She to me is more like the Tories like David Cameron who actively hate poor people. Sad to say it, but it's usually people who came from a shit background that end up like this. Obviously not all (I didn't) and not even the majority, but nearly every benefits basher I've met has been a person who thinks they are better than where they came from and hates anyone who needs help from the government.

I also had a modest background (raised by single parent on benefits, council flat) to work in central government and pay tax (lots of it). Funnily, this experience has made me more understanding of the causes and results of poverty, not less. Hiro, your background does not justify your views, far from it. I hope you are enjoying living somewhere where you can enjoy your massive privileges unencumbered by having any responsibility for the less lucky who live all around you.

Let's not forget this is Toby "Get the state to pay for my kids' education and call it a free school"

I know 100% why he did this little school initiative. he didn't want his kids to go to Acton High, and couldn't afford private.

That said, he does have a point about the romanticising, if the film maker lives in Islington he might be slightly disconnected from reality, aka White Dee . We tend to be very black and white on some issues here and no middle ground is allowed

Plenty of women I went to school with have never worked, live in social housing and have more than 3 kids. We don't want to pay for that, so we left

this is true, and so is this

1000s of decent people (many of them in FT work or carers) who have been reduced to taking charity

see what Imean, its either one view of the other. BOTH exist

To those who are saying they have no objection to those who are sick and in need getting benefits, I hope they realise the huge stress the sick and disabled are put through now when applying for the non means tested PIP to help with the extra costs accrued by being sick or disabled and ESA th out of work benefit too ill or disabled to work. The criteria for PIP have been massively narrowed, so many who were entitled to some help before are no longer getting anything.

I have not seen Ken Loach's film, but I thought the main character couldn't work due to ill health and the film exposes how awful the new process is for the sick. The questions on the forms are not fit for purpose.

DWP's own records showed fraud for DLA, the disablity benefit before PIP, was extremely low, 0.5%. Yet DWP's attitude now to the sick and disabled who are applying for sick and disablity benefits is the claimant is trying to hoodwink the DWP and many PIP assessors will underscore in any way they can. Rates of appeal for both PIP and ESA are extremely high and many receive the award at appeal stage. So many claimants health is made worse having to go through the stressful process of being refused and having to appeal.